Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Independence and self-centeredness go hand in hand. You can't really depend on others to promote YOUR welfare, only yourself.
I don't know ANY rational person that will put someone else's survival above their own.
The instinct for self preservation is intrinsic for most people. But, for those with families, ensuring the survival of spouse and/or children generally trumps self preservation.
Not all people should have families--like my parents. They didn't care about my survival--there were plenty of nights that I didn't get to eat. But you can rest assured that they got fed.
Not all people should have families--like my parents. They didn't care about my survival--there were plenty of nights that I didn't get to eat. But you can rest assured that they got fed.
but this has nothing to do with the social contract in the broad sense. i am sorry that your family level contract sucked–i really do hate it when children suffer, and i go out of my way to make sure that i am a positive influence to children that i know (especially my own)–but the success or failure of human civilization does not hinge of the success or failure of your parents.
your parents might have been worthless piles of human excrement, but you still need to get over it. until you do, you are only making yourself a victim, and you are only hurting those around you. if you don't want to hurt anyone else (and i will assume that you are a decent human in this respect, and don't want to hurt others), then either take responsibility for your own current issues and fix them, or actually do what you want us to think you are doing, and get away from society; go live like a wild man in the woods.
there are other people that have had much worse upbringings than yourself, and still manage to recognize the good that society can do for them, and the good that they can do for society. your refusal to do either only makes you a stumbling block to yourself and those around you.
now, i'm breaking my own rules by replying to you, but i feel the need to mention that i am willing to take you off my ignore list if you want to have an actual conversation about things. i don't mean that you have to agree with everything that i say. but you, tk, need to quit with your usual deflections, generalizations, and other logical fallacies; you weren't on my list for being a jerk or anything like that, but because you don't seem to want to recognize when you are sticking your fingers in your ears and throwing a tantrum.
if not, i'm happy labeling you as a perpetual victim and putting you back on ignore. your choice.
Here is why the argument to leave fails. It is all a matter of degree. Do you consider yourself subject to the laws of say, China? If you don't, why not? Because they are in a different hemisphere? They still occupy the same planet as the rest of us.
Suppose you live in New York. Do you consider yourself subject to the laws of New Jersey? If you don't, why not? They still occupy the same planet and the same continent as you do.
You occupy your body and therefore wherever your body is, you are a sovereign individual unto yourself. All other aspects of our citizenship can be divided from global right down to the community in which we live. But once we get to the individual, there are no further divisions. And if we are not sovereign and we do not own our bodies and by extension our actions, are we not mere slaves?
There is one law and that is do no harm to others which is the corollary of self preservation and the perpetuation of life.
but this has nothing to do with the social contract in the broad sense. i am sorry that your family level contract sucked–i really do hate it when children suffer, and i go out of my way to make sure that i am a positive influence to children that i know (especially my own)–but the success or failure of human civilization does not hinge of the success or failure of your parents.
your parents might have been worthless piles of human excrement, but you still need to get over it. until you do, you are only making yourself a victim, and you are only hurting those around you. if you don't want to hurt anyone else (and i will assume that you are a decent human in this respect, and don't want to hurt others), then either take responsibility for your own current issues and fix them, or actually do what you want us to think you are doing, and get away from society; go live like a wild man in the woods.
there are other people that have had much worse upbringings than yourself, and still manage to recognize the good that society can do for them, and the good that they can do for society. your refusal to do either only makes you a stumbling block to yourself and those around you.
now, i'm breaking my own rules by replying to you, but i feel the need to mention that i am willing to take you off my ignore list if you want to have an actual conversation about things. i don't mean that you have to agree with everything that i say. but you, tk, need to quit with your usual deflections, generalizations, and other logical fallacies; you weren't on my list for being a jerk or anything like that, but because you don't seem to want to recognize when you are sticking your fingers in your ears and throwing a tantrum.
if not, i'm happy labeling you as a perpetual victim and putting you back on ignore. your choice.
aaron out.
I'm actually grateful, because it taught me how to NOT depend on anybody else. Depending on anything outside yourself--even God--is a recipe for failure. There's nothing wrong with believing in God, but to depend on anyone outside yourself is not growing fully as a person.
You get complaints about "the nanny state". I don't need a government telling me my every move, or paying my way through life. I'm not dependent on them. I'm a fully self-actualized person.
This entire thread is an excellent example of the principles of a 'social contract' in micro action. Despite the heated exchanges and debates that run throughout, freely consented to by all parties I might add, no one seems to have needed to 'report' abuses. (I'm late to this thread so maybe I'm wrong). That written, it's pretty hard to show the concept as invalid given this fact. Everyone seems to have governed themselves pretty well. Those being contrary for the sake of it not withstanding. Perhaps in spite of it.
Last edited by Tony Of New York; 09-17-2009 at 08:57 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
