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You need to get over yourself. I am guess that you are Asian. And I won't try to take away or dismiss the racism that plagues Asians in this country. HOWEVER, do not try to run the game that Asians face a tougher time in this country due to racism than Blacks or Hispanics. PLease
Asians are referred to as the "model minority" for a reason. (I'm not going to discuss the bigotry that is inherent in that description).
Get over yourself. I don't know where you live, or why you have such a chip on your shoulder, but you're spouting nonsense now. This is not 1880 and you are not in the midwest working on the railroad. You will not win that battle and I don't know why you would want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
And to break it down even further, in mainstream america, blacks are seen in a more positive light than asians because they are considered most american and are more socially accepted (it's probably natural) and even hispanics before asians. The only reason this has shifted at all in regards to hispanics is the border issue and heavy illegal immigration. I have seen this in general society and even in the workplace, often. Asians are the ones who receive the most prejudice. Even in upper-middle class society, it's the same theme when blacks are in the same socioeconomic category. this is because overall blacks are seen as most american (naturally) than asians and have similar cultural values and thinking minus the ghetto culture. in mainstream society, pop or even ghetto culture is a major part of america so it's no surprise blacks are viewed as most american and fit in better. even in employment situations, if it was a choice between an asian applicant and a black applicant with the exact same qualifications, even most white americans would prefer the black applicant (i have no idea why this is a shock to you) because they've been in america longer and again, considered most american. sorry but your take is less in touch with reality than my assessment no matter the model minority stereotye or whatever. that has very little effect on majority of america's perceptions, preferences or likes and dislikes.
You need to get over yourself. I am guess that you are Asian. And I won't try to take away or dismiss the racism that plagues Asians in this country. HOWEVER, do not try to run the game that Asians face a tougher time in this country due to racism than Blacks or Hispanics. PLease
Asians are referred to as the "model minority" for a reason. (I'm not going to discuss the bigotry that is inherent in that description).
Get over yourself. I don't know where you live, or why you have such a chip on your shoulder, but you're spouting nonsense now. This is not 1880 and you are not in the midwest working on the railroad. You will not win that battle and I don't know why you would want to.
Excuse me? my posts are realistic and most americans don't care about the model minority stereotype and they are 'referred' as the model minority by 'some' whites and the reason isn't because it's some underhanded maneuver or indicative that people like asians. it's because asians as a group demographic just have lower crime stats, higher education levels etc in comparison to black or hispanic communities. of course, this isn't totally true but either way, has no real basis on preference on a real life level. some nonasians dislike asians for other reasons, it doesn't have to have anything to do with this stereotype. even the stereotype of asians as bad drivers is something that all whites, blacks and hispanics are priviledged to enjoy when in fact, they are the safest drivers statistically. yes, that's a lot of love there. no, it's indicative that asians are not respected, they are tolerated because they don't cause much problems and americans try to find ways to belittle them.
I already explained (evidently i must have a few more brain cells since i had to) why hispanics, especially mexicans, now face more discrimination (border issue) but also that blacks do not because they are seen as more american. i even have a black friend who admitted that the prejudice toward blacks have drastically changed since the late seventies to eighties and even they noticed that asians were more the object of social outcast or prejudice than blacks were. you do not have any excuses left socially or otherwise. blacks, when they are not acting ghetto, are as accepted as any other minority or have as much chances as anyone else. and even if some fit the stereotypical ghetto person, depending on their circle, can still be accepted even by those who are nonblack.
you have this artificial idea that all whites must like asians because of the model minority stereotype, when in fact, there are nonasians who resent or are prejudiced toward asians for their own particular reasons whether it's thier looks, their culture, they hate china, they are a different race, they seem unamerican, their grandad was in the vietnam war and all possible excuses or reasons. it's you who are unrealistic. evidently what i'm pointing out is everyone has thier own set of prejudices and stereotypes to deal with and to say blacks and hispanics have it worse is a bit misleading because it also differs geographically. blacks and hispanics are going to be more favored in southern states than an asian but maybe not in new england except maybe states like ny but overall as even another person stated, this is a black and white country and blacks are overall accepted.
if you can't realize that, then you either have poor judgement or walk around with blinders on. asians are not preferred for anything or given any special priviledges or liked anymore than others or have easier time in dating. there is a difference between ideas on a discussion forum and real life.
yes, get over yourself and please wake up to reality.
You guys are talking about two different forms of nonacceptance with very different consequences.
Rory00 is talking about the "eternal foreigner" labeling of Asians. This limits the access they have to many dimensions of social life in the US and of being able to fully set their cultural roots here in the US. The discrimination currently felt is not economic but social and cultural. We see this discrimination in college admissions, despite the huge Asian enrollment numbers. Many Asian applicants are forced to schools with numbers far below most quantitative standards for grades and test scores of its Asian applicants.
Baybook is referring to the very distinct institutional legacy of the treatment of Blacks. The negative dimensions are very much economic while no longer political, social nor cultural (the latter two very different than say 40 years ago). And of course, this has led to pockets of absolutely horrid poverty and family destruction, with much of that coming ironically in the past 40 years after the construction of the welfare state, the crumbling of the Church, the rise of the Black elite. Despite these changes, the dehumanization of the African-American pushed many them into a poverty cycle that I personally cannot begin imagine, but nevertheless one that is the obvious primary cause of Black poverty. Yet, there is no doubt whatsoever that the Black experience is very much the American experience, a clear cultural presence that eludes the Asian Americans.
Is it any wonder then why the current generation or two of American Asians and Blacks distrust each other? Their experiences in the US have been 180* opposite of each other. The newest waves of immigration from Asia only reduce the small core of commonality between the two experiences that still remain.
There is much you two should learn from one another. You would do well to share. While any division among Americans is bad to witness, the gulf between Asian- and African-Americans is almost criminal and based on a remarkable ignorance of each other's experiences.
America needs all her colours if it is to remain strong and free.
You guys are talking about two different forms of nonacceptance with very different consequences.
Rory00 is talking about the "eternal foreigner" labeling of Asians. This limits the access they have to many dimensions of social life in the US and of being able to fully set their cultural roots here in the US. The discrimination currently felt is not economic but social and cultural. We see this discrimination in college admissions, despite the huge Asian enrollment numbers. Many Asian applicants are forced to schools with numbers far below most quantitative standards for grades and test scores of its Asian applicants.
Baybook is referring to the very distinct institutional legacy of the treatment of Blacks. The negative dimensions are very much economic while no longer political, social nor cultural (the latter two very different than say 40 years ago). And of course, this has led to pockets of absolutely horrid poverty and family destruction, with much of that coming ironically in the past 40 years after the construction of the welfare state, the crumbling of the Church, the rise of the Black elite. Despite these changes, the dehumanization of the African-American pushed many them into a poverty cycle that I personally cannot begin imagine, but nevertheless one that is the obvious primary cause of Black poverty. Yet, there is no doubt whatsoever that the Black experience is very much the American experience, a clear cultural presence that eludes the Asian Americans.
Is it any wonder then why the current generation or two of American Asians and Blacks distrust each other? Their experiences in the US have been 180* opposite of each other. The newest waves of immigration from Asia only reduce the small core of commonality between the two experiences that still remain.
There is much you two should learn from one another. You would do well to share. While any division among Americans is bad to witness, the gulf between Asian- and African-Americans is almost criminal and based on a remarkable ignorance of each other's experiences.
America needs all her colours if it is to remain strong and free.
S.
that was not the point of this thread, it was what others confused the context of this thread with. the assertion was that african-americans, especially males, are having it tough in the dating and marriage sphere in america as if, again, it's only them. well, that's not accurate, especially in american culture. my assertion was that social acceptance is paramount first to relationship acceptance which african-americans have already established. on top of that, they ignored the majority and focused on the model minority stereotype which is only important, if at all, to a small sect of the population. most americans see other minorities as the foreigner, communist, third-worlder, strange people or those taking their jobs etc (not model minority or whatever) among other things which is fine to some extent since no one has to like someone or group if they don't want to. if it's not natural to them, then that is that. it was obvious that i was pointing out the unrealism.
And to break it down even further, in mainstream america, blacks are seen in a more positive light than asians because they are considered most american and are more socially accepted (it's probably natural) and even hispanics before asians. The only reason this has shifted at all in regards to hispanics is the border issue and heavy illegal immigration. I have seen this in general society and even in the workplace, often. Asians are the ones who receive the most prejudice. Even in upper-middle class society, it's the same theme when blacks are in the same socioeconomic category. this is because overall blacks are seen as most american (naturally) than asians and have similar cultural values and thinking minus the ghetto culture. in mainstream society, pop or even ghetto culture is a major part of america so it's no surprise blacks are viewed as most american and fit in better. even in employment situations, if it was a choice between an asian applicant and a black applicant with the exact same qualifications, even most white americans would prefer the black applicant (i have no idea why this is a shock to you) because they've been in america longer and again, considered most american. sorry but your take is less in touch with reality than my assessment no matter the model minority stereotye or whatever. that has very little effect on majority of america's perceptions, preferences or likes and dislikes.
If the Asian culture has it so hard, why is it when it comes to adopting a child, most will choose an Asian child over any other race?
If the Asian culture has it so hard, why is it when it comes to adopting a child, most will choose an Asian child over any other race?
i can't argue with stupidity well. there is no place to even begin.
many americans adopt children of all races, even handicapped children?? hello? i know quite a few white couples who have adopted african-american children. as for asian children, sometimes the adoption process is easier and that is why. people who want to adopt foreign children don't usually have a die-hard preference, they go with the easiest adoption services. my opinion is that americans should adopt american children and not foreign children for the most part. i think a lot of parents are naive about what the different race child may go through in society, even if they have loving parents. there was a special documentary about adoptees and an asian adoptee was in tears relating how her adopted mother would never acknowledge her pain from racist ridicule or not being accepted. this is why i find people's surprise that asians face racism quite disingenous, even outright dishonesty about the culture they live in. i have lived all over america and attended many different schools and i witnessed asians more than any other race be the target of racism and cruelty. this is not a surprise unless you are of feeble intelligence or are just dishonest. end of story.
by how this thread has gone on, i get the impression that any minority group that is perceived to be favored or preferred by the elite or upper-class whites is regarded with having no pertinent prejudicial issues or racism. sykes has paid lip service but i don't find the posts that honest, i think he trivializes it which is condescending but typical and the model minority issue in regards to asians as some special seal of approval bestowed by whites, lol. first, asians are not preferred by any group of society. that's a farce, there are elite people just as prejudiced or do not like asians as anyone else does. that's an individual thing. second, asians deal with as much prejudice as anyone else and not all asians are rich where they live in mansions behind locked gates.
this thread illustrates what i've been talking about. it also is indicative of what i've been talking about and that is asians are not seen as very american. go to any school in america and nine times out of ten, if it's asian, white, black or hispanic, it's the asian kid who will be targeted for racism. is that clear-cut enough for you or should i draw you a picture? this does not stop magically when they graduate from college and they are in careers. i've worked in IT and asians are not preferred and are seen as threats for the most part and there are plenty of americans who don't like them or see them as competition. because asians are so ambitious, it just makes them more scrutinized and the object of resentment. if they are not somehow so americanized to make everyone around them feel extremely comfortable and a nonthreat (people pleaser) they have to walk a finer line than everyone else.
i mean, seriously, how stupid can americans be that they don't understand what i'm talking about? you see it in society everyday and the mindframe, pulse, values etc of americans etc. i already explained that americans are very european conscious first and those who have similar looks(which include hispanics etc) first intermixed with african-americans and culture are the most maintream. i even know an americanized arab and indian girl who would never be seen as unamerican simply because she looks caucasian. even they would be seen more american than an oriental asian, even americanized. this is how american culture is, NOT that there is anything wrong with that, every culture has it's theme and has every right to.
That may be true, but it was the fundamental lack of communication of your exchanges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
the assertion was that african-americans, especially males, are having it tough in the dating and marriage sphere in america as if, again, it's only them.
I did not read that (granted I am not reading each post). Rather, baybook seemed to be arguing the degree to which it is more difficult for African American males to date across all races, which I think seems very reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
my assertion was that social acceptance is paramount first to relationship acceptance which african-americans have already established.
I disagree. The flip side of firm social acceptance is firm lack of social acceptance. The ability for a black make to penetrate the veil of cultural taboos in European, Latin, and most of all Asian communities is not terribly strong.
With Asians, while there is certainly lack of acceptance--the eternal foreigner--the acceptance, good or bad, is more porous. Asians are not seen as offlimits as they might have been 50 or 100 years ago. This is not saying that there is any clear acceptance, but rather that lack of acceptance is also not set in stone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
on top of that, they ignored the majority and focused on the model minority stereotype which is only important, if at all, to a small sect of the population. most americans see other minorities as the foreigner, communist, third-worlder, strange people or those taking their jobs etc (not model minority or whatever) among other things which is fine to some extent since no one has to like someone or group if they don't want to. if it's not natural to them, then that is that. it was obvious that i was pointing out the unrealism.
Sorry, I do not follow. Are you saying anything goes? And that if Blacks are not accepted, they are not accepted? It is certainly a valid POV, but it is a conversation stopper, no?
My own two cents is that racial mixing is a good thing. It certainly leads to some exceedingly beautiful people and a huge cross pollination of ideas. But best of all is that it highlights the best of America: the creation of something that heretofore did not exist.
That may be true, but it was the fundamental lack of communication of your exchanges.
I did not read that (granted I am not reading each post). Rather, baybook seemed to be arguing the degree to which it is more difficult for African American males to date across all races, which I think seems very reasonable.
I disagree. The flip side of firm social acceptance is firm lack of social acceptance. The ability for a black make to penetrate the veil of cultural taboos in European, Latin, and most of all Asian communities is not terribly strong.
With Asians, while there is certainly lack of acceptance--the eternal foreigner--the acceptance, good or bad, is more porous. Asians are not seen as offlimits as they might have been 50 or 100 years ago. This is not saying that there is any clear acceptance, but rather that lack of acceptance is also not set in stone.
Sorry, I do not follow. Are you saying anything goes? And that if Blacks are not accepted, they are not accepted? It is certainly a valid POV, but it is a conversation stopper, no?
My own two cents is that racial mixing is a good thing. It certainly leads to some exceedingly beautiful people and a huge cross pollination of ideas. But best of all is that it highlights the best of America: the creation of something that heretofore did not exist.
S.
um, i cannot believe this nonsense. blacks can date across all races as much as any other minority or race and it is not set in stone for them either. the citing of racism is across all races when in reality other races or minorities face it as well including thier own black community who are against mixed race marriage etc.
lack of acceptance not set in stone? LOL. there are people who do not want thier children to marry anyone of a different race.
i also cited that people have issues, stereotypes or bigotry with other races for various reasons besides blacks (and blacks themselves have them toward others!) and that is not 'you are not accepted, so anything goes'. i don't know how you came to that off the wall and illogical conclusion.
most importantly, white/black couples are common in america and even in europe. i already mentioned germany.
this idea of dating across all cultures or races is a bit unrealistic. anyone can do it if they set out to by finding those who will accept them but it's not like everyone will. since when are people free of prejudice? some can and some won't depending on who and what family and thier particular values are and what they will accept.
CLUE: other minorities cannot date across all cultures like it's some free for all that blacks are not privy to. and to the extent they can, so can blacks. i already mentioned that some will find certain minorities more attractive than others depending upon the person and even find blacks more attractive than other minorities!! everyone has thier own bigotry and it's not all the same or directed at or about the same race! why are people so hardheaded and totally ignore the facts. it is unbelievable.
there are plenty of black/white couples and not everyone prefers asians or hispanics or whatever. what is so difficult to understand? it's like arguing with a computer program that just spits out rhetoric. "blacks are discriminated", "blacks can't date across all races" and repeat. that is a lie. i even give real splash water on your face examples and it's totally ignored. over and over i have posted the truth and it's ignored. i even stated most asians will be rejected by african-americans but everything is viewed totally from an "african-americans are discriminated" viewpoint which skews reality. just like the rest of general americana, WHITES, BLACKS AND HISPANICS are the preferable choice with blacks or hispanics interchangeable depending on the person. whites are usually the preferable choice but blacks sometimes prefer hispanics over whites and some hispanics prefer blacks over whites and some people like mixed people or biracial people. it's not just "blacks are discriminated."
i mean seriously these ideas and points of view on this thread are weirdly and way off base from reality. it's like blind theorizing.
i find this thread surreal. i'm having my friend read over it right now and they can see it. mr. sykes stated that asians date whites but not african-americans because of taboo. oh boohoo, how dare others not date blacks and ignore character etc etc.
but no one woke up and realized that african-americans especially do not find asians attractive usually either. as a matter of fact, asians represent the total opposite of what they do find attractive. anyone with common sense would realize this dynamic prevalent in society. african-americans find whites and hispanics more in their sights for dating and marriage than any other race. Asians are nerds, have flat asses, don't have rythym, thier men are effeminate etc. sound familiar? nothing that appeals to general americana including blacks. anybody waking up at all? why is it that one race is being demonized for bigotry not 'looking at character' but another race is ignored when they do it. could it be the blind 'ol "blacks are discriminated" tape again or 'american opinion is a fact' brainwashing?
this is why i have been in this thread because it's been so skewed.
i find this thread surreal. i'm having my friend read over it right now and they can see it. mr. sykes stated that asians date whites but not african-americans because of taboo. oh boohoo, how dare others not date blacks and ignore character etc etc.
but no one woke up and realized that african-americans especially do not find asians attractive usually either. as a matter of fact, asians represent the total opposite of what they do find attractive. anyone with common sense would realize this dynamic prevalent in society. african-americans find whites and hispanics more in their sights for dating and marriage than any other race. Asians are nerds, have flat asses, don't have rythym, thier men are effeminate etc. sound familiar? nothing that appeals to general americana including blacks. anybody waking up at all? why is it that one race is being demonized for bigotry not 'looking at character' but another race is ignored when they do it. could it be the blind 'ol "blacks are discriminated" tape again or 'american opinion is a fact' brainwashing?
this is why i have been in this thread because it's been so skewed.
I find Asians attractive, but I don't see alot of them wanting to date me, not that there aren't any. Who knows, maybe the woman I might fall in love with may be Asian. I don't know yet. No woman has ever dated me, yet. Actually, I like women in general.
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