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Overlooked what? The non-violent burglary (which didn't physically harm anybody), or the sadistic, psychotic kick (which did).
Breaking and entering into private, interior living space always entails violence and infers the possibility of more which may be directed towards the inhabitants, thus the Castle Doctrine which allows for justifiable lethal force against intruders.
Breaking and entering into private, interior living space always entails violence and infers the possibility of more which may be directed towards the inhabitants, thus the Castle Doctrine which allows for justifiable lethal force against intruders.
Yep, which is why the homeowner won't be able to use the Castle Doctrine as a defense in this instance.
Now had he been home at the time or come home to find the guy still in the house then yes, he could have killed the guy quite legally...especially with kids in the mix.
Otherwise, you might have people gunning down suspicious runners near crime scenes only to later find out they were just out jogging.
Breaking and entering into private, interior living space always entails violence.
Cut and paste me the dictionary definition of Violence that would support this point. In this particular case, it seems likely that the burglar walked in through an unlocked door. What definition of 'violence' does that meet? If you wish, I will reciprocate with a dictionary definition of 'violence' that can be bent and twisted to include kicking a person in the face.
Furthermore, entering an unlocked building does not meet the legal test of breaking and entering, nor burglary. Since the occupants of the house heard no sounds until the perp was already in the basement, I'm assuming there was no violent entry.
Cut and paste me the dictionary definition of Violence that would support this point. In this particular case, it seems likely that the burglar walked in through an unlocked door. What definition of 'violence' does that meet? If you wish, I will reciprocate with a dictionary definition of 'violence' that can be bent and twisted to include kicking a person in the face.
Furthermore, entering an unlocked building does not meet the legal test of breaking and entering, nor burglary. Since the occupants of the house heard no sounds until the perp was already in the basement, I'm assuming there was no violent entry.
The kids heard a crash in the basement and locked themselves in the bedroom. What are you talkin about. And walking into an unlocked home may not be breaking and entering, but its still illegal and could get you a bullet in yer azz.
The kids heard a crash in the basement and locked themselves in the bedroom. What are you talkin about.:
Umm---I'm talkin about kids hearin a crash in the basement and lockin themselves in a bedroom. How does that equate with your dictionary definition of violence?
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and could get you a bullet in yer azz
If you fool around with gun-totin psychos, you can get a bullet in your azz for just about anything. Read the threads about guns and bearing arms. These crazies are just DYING to shoot a trespasser, and watch him lying there kicking. They're online gloating about how ready they are to shoot the father of some innocent kids, and how quick they would do it. Go ahead, make their day. The happiest day if their life is the day they shoot and kill someone.
Umm---I'm talkin about kids hearin a crash in the basement and lockin themselves in a bedroom. How does that equate with your dictionary definition of violence?
If you fool around with gun-totin psychos, you can get a bullet in your azz for just about anything. Read the threads about guns and bearing arms. These crazies are just DYING to shoot a trespasser, and watch him lying there kicking. They're online gloating about how ready they are to shoot the father of some innocent kids, and how quick they would do it. Go ahead, make their day. The happiest day if their life is the day they shoot and kill someone.
Since you want to take this off-topic and speak about intruders...
"Breaking and entering is the crime of entering a residence or other enclosed property without authorization and some element of force. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. Without an intent to commit a crime, breaking and entering by itself usually carries a charge of the crime of trespass." --- definitions.uslegal.com
(the element of force can be turning a doorknob or sliding open a screen)
I agree with your assertion that playing around with gun-totin psychos is dangerous, HOWEVER, everyone who carries a gun, or uses one in the defense of his home and family is not the psycho you paint him to be. As evidence, concealed carry in this country has reached record levels. Are you saying that everyone is a psycho? Since each and every one has to be approved by the presiding court in that jurisdiction, you're saying that our courts are routinely issuing the right to carry in public to a bunch of crazies. Why are these judges not being stopped? Why is there no uproar? As for defending one's own home and family from BOTH intruders in the living space AND those who would do harm (not necessarily two mutually exclusive groups), where do you see anything wrong with this?
As for shooting "the father of some innocent kids", where did you conjure this up and what does it have to do with anything? The fact that he may have kids, and the kids are innocent does not excuse that the father may be a slimeball criminal who has chosen to commit crimes and may die (rightfully so) in the course of doing so? Remember, Saddam Hussein was a father also, as is Bin Laden. Would you excuse them for what they've done just because they managed to impregnate one or more women along the way? When the perp is shot, he's not acting in the role of a father.
Personally (and JFTR, I too carry concealed having been judged fit to do so by two local district courts) I have no desire to see anyone lying in my home kicking, whether they have smashed their way in or snuck in through an accidentally-unlocked door. He would not be capable of kicking, and the only thing he would be doing is reaching room temperature. And it would ultimately be a proud day that I took a stance and effectively defended my home and family from a dangerous invader who came into our home to do harm to us.
I have on occasion heard noises in my home at night and upon hearing them, ascertained the location of my wife and daughter, then got carefully out of bed, grabbed a gun and light, and have gone to investigate. The moment I touch my gun I've already committed to take the life of any intruder. The light, bright enough to blind and disorient when shone in the eyes, is to make sure I know what I'm shooting at. (My other option is a Remington 870 pump with 00 buck backed up by slugs and a very bright weapon light on top.) In either case, he will not be kicking, but will likely be soon cooling or perhaps a red stain on the wall. Having made the choice to enter my home surreptitiously, he will not be a threat to me or my family. You don't wave a gun to scare, nor shoot to wound. You shoot to stop and the most effective way to do that is to make every shot a kill shot. And the state agrees when dealing with those who have killed intruders in their homes.
There's my plan and motivation jtur. I suspect yours is more like this:
You hear a noise from downstairs at night. You pull the blankets over your head and whisper "Shhh... Keep quiet! Let them take what they want and they'll probably go away." Finally, as the noises continue, you steel your nerves, lift and edge of the blanket and call out in a whiny, nasally voice "Take what you want, Mr. Burglar-sir, but please don't hurt me. Oh, and please don't hurt my poodle either! Thank you!"
Plan B (your take-action plan): An intruder enters the house as you're doing afternoon chores. You see him, scream and clutch your chest. Then you say "Please leave or I'll bi*ch-slap you with my feather duster!" but then decide to make him tea while you talk about his kids and reasons for becoming a criminal. He takes both your plama TV and your Barbie collection while you offer him the number of a counseling center.
You're a coward of the worst kind, jtur, evidenced time and time again for your stance in favor of allowing criminals to do as they wish rather than stand up against them with force if need be.
No, it can't be. If you believe that, then you believe that it can include stepping over a threshold. Words in the English language have meanings, including "force", and everyone understands what they mean except you.
A closed door is not a bar to entry, and is not intended to bar entry. A locked door is. That's the difference.
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your stance in favor of allowing criminals to do as they wish
I don't believe that everyone who commits a crime should be summarily gunned down in the streets by gangs of trigger-happy vigilantes foaming at the mouth. When someone argues that they should be, I stand up for the criminal. When someone stands up for constitutional rights and due process, go ahead and call us cowards. I think a coward is someone who kicks a guy who is already in handcuffs.
While the home owner may have over reacted just a bit, he should have been given a pass.
Hey any of you left wing libs tell you don't want to protect your family.
PS, all the perp would get is a slap on the hand .
He needs to be taugh why not to enter that house again. Bet he remembers and goes to a lib ass licking home next time
Hope it is not one of your homes when they let him skate .
Aside from the moronic political generalizations, your point is flawed.
What if the burglar is pissed off that he got kicked in the face while in custody and figures he'll go back there and settle the score?
Violence never solved anything, that's why we created laws, and moved away from blood vengeance.
I understand fury, I understand defense, and even being angry and wanting to inflict harm, but kicking someone in the face, while they're laying down with cuffs on is pathetic and cowardly and doesn't deserve respect nor understanding.
I agree with you: if I caught someone breaking into my home, it's open season. However, if the police have already brought the guy down and are in the process of handcuffing him, I don't think I'd kick him in the face (I'd have done that long before the police arrived!)
I usually stay away from these debates b/c well . . they do tend to get a tad OT and 'heated'. I worked with criminal and civil litigators, including prosecutors for close to 15 years. In the State I moved here from there was the 'make my day law' - they're in your house, you shoot or beat the crap out of them everything's cool (but they have to be 'inside' your house).
However; the alleged intruder in this case was on the ground in the process of being handcuffed by the police and then the homeowner started kicking him in the face, which is assault. Now I used to have a gun in my house in the States, as well as baseball bats and wouldn't have hesitated to utilize either if someone had broke into my home. But AFTER the police arrived and had the alleged intruder on the ground handcuffing him? I don't care how many connections I had in the legal community which were numerous, I would have been charged too. The poster I quoted hit the nail on the head: If you're going to do it, then do it BEFORE the cops show up and not right in front of them. I mean, duh.
JMO so please don't throw bricks at me.
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