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There is a point, once something becomes memorized, that it is nothing more than a series of sounds linked together. I think at that point, it really doesn't mean anything to the speaker--it's simply a Pavlov Dog thing to get through each day before you resume shooting spitwads at each other.
So, I really don't know how to feel about it. The pledge obviously means something, but does it mean anything to the kid that is saying it for the 500th time? It didn't to me at the time. On the other hand, as 'citizens' aren't we sort of expected to embrace the principles within the pledge (other than the God part)? I'm just not so sure that reciting it over and over serves any purpose or that it prods a child to embrace those principles. At the heart of the matter is the fact that I can say anything you want me to say. It doesn't mean I believe it or embrace it--talk is cheap.
I guess the bottom line is that it is a formality. I'm generally against formalities. In this case, I'll just stay on the fence and throw my hands in the air.
Shouldn't patriotism be a voluntary choice, or even how to express it?
Isn't REQUIRING kids to recite a pledge of allegiance the sort of thing we would expect from North Korea, not the US?
What is the First Amendment worth, if the government can force you to say something every morning, whether you like it or not?
GO BACK TO RUSSIA.
You can't choose to accept or reject something you don't understand. That's like trying to squeeze water out of a dry sponge.
Plus, I don't think schools force kids to recite the Pledge. In our elementary, one can stand or sit silently during the morning recitation without any chastisement.
And, what's with the "go back to Russia" thing? Where the heck did that come from? I was born and raised in the U.S., as were a dozen or so of the preceding generations of my family and even more prior to that auspicious day in 1776. I am fully entitled to have an opinion about this matter.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-23-2010 at 10:40 AM..
Reason: typo
My parents made sure that, even though I was in catholic school and did catholic things, that I knew who I was, and what I believed in. Thats the PARENTS job.
I have to disagree with this. It's YOUR job. Your parent's job is to teach you the skills to think critically and make your own choices, even if those choices are directly opposed to what your parents might have done in a similar situation. No one or nothing should decide what you believe except you.
You can't choose to accept or reject something you don't understand.
I just dont think that having them recite it makes them understand it. Thats what I am saying. Shouldnt we let them figure it out instead of telling them that "this country is great" Why is it great? "Because we are free." You know what im talking about, the same old blindly stated cliches about the USA that weve heard all our lives. This type of BS doesnt do our country and people a whole lot of good. Let the kids figure it out by comparing us to other countries and then see how good we have it. Then they would know why. They would also be a little more compassionate towards other cultures and people and maybe we wouldnt have all the problems we have in the world because of our ignorance. I mean you do agree that we Americans as a whole are pretty lacking on the knowledge of other nations?
An interesting class project would be to assign the students to compose a new Pledge of Responsible Citizenship, and for the classroom to collectively agree on a version.
But that would never happen, because tampering with the "official" original would be classified as "unpatriotic", and in some states (apparently including Pandamonium's), against the law.
I just dont think that having them recite it makes them understand it. Thats what I am saying. Shouldnt we let them figure it out instead of telling them that "this country is great" Why is it great? "Because we are free." You know what im talking about, the same old blindly stated cliches about the USA that weve heard all our lives. This type of BS doesnt do our country and people a whole lot of good. Let the kids figure it out by comparing us to other countries and then see how good we have it. Then they would know why. They would also be a little more compassionate towards other cultures and people and maybe we wouldnt have all the problems we have in the world because of our ignorance. I mean you do agree that we Americans as a whole are pretty lacking on the knowledge of other nations?
I think I understand your point. You're concerned that the Pledge is empty of context and therefore meaningless in helping children understand how our nation differs from the rest of the world. So, where and when do you begin the discussion?
I believe that the Pledge is a good starting point. As young children, we don't understand what we're saying. I fully acknowledge this; however, education doesn't stop there. The conversation continues, or at least should continue, throughout life. My second grader recites the Pledge at school and at Scouts. He's still a little iffy about what it means. One the other hand, my middle schooler has a much better grasp of American history and the importance of our commitment to liberty and justice both inside and outside our borders. She knows, in a middle schooler way, when things don't feel right, and she's very tuned in to injustice. Aren't they all? As an adult, I fully understand the history of our Pledge, and when I recite it, I take time to say the words with inflection. I think about what it means and recommit myself to living its principles. They aren't empty words to me.
We teach children in stages. Rote memorization is the beginning, but it should never be the end.
When I was in high school, myself and a few of my friends did not say the pledge for this exact reason in addition to the "under god" line. When everyone else stood up we just remained seated and read or worked on homework. A couple of teachers would get angry about it, but in the end there was nothing that they could do.
What is it exactly that you were opposing? Do you not believe in liberty and justice, or were you angry that your nation wasn't upholding those principles? Because if it's the latter, I would think it more appropriate to say the words, while helping your nation recommit to them.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 04-23-2010 at 10:46 AM..
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