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Old 12-06-2014, 07:50 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,794,184 times
Reputation: 2366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Are you going out in the woods and cut the handle yourself? Still need saw even if it's a hand saw, the small steel tools to shape your handle? Where is the steel for those products coming from. What about the energy required to forge them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tt7RG3UR4c
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,062 posts, read 2,551,106 times
Reputation: 1939
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
How does the recycled material get to the recycling facility? Energy to sort it? Where is the fule coming from to forge it into a sledge.



This would require much more energy and land to make food. If you have everyone using sledges to bust up concrete around the county you're going to need a LOT of food.




Irrelevant to the point I'm making and repairing broken sidewalks is a time and money wasting band aid.

I do understand the point you are making that it is difficult not to pollute and still have a society but the point I need to make is that while nothing is perfect we can and should be doing much better than we are to have clean land, air, and water, if we all agreed and made it happen just imagine what we could accomplish and how much better things could be. Some of these politicians aren't even trying.
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Old 12-07-2014, 06:13 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,074,696 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
I do understand the point you are making that it is difficult not to pollute and still have a society but the point I need to make is that while nothing is perfect we can and should be doing much better than we are to have clean land, air, and water, if we all agreed and made it happen just imagine what we could accomplish and how much better things could be. Some of these politicians aren't even trying.
Since the 80's the six most common air pollutants as an aggregate have been reduced 62%.







The law of diminishing returns begins to kick in.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,062 posts, read 2,551,106 times
Reputation: 1939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
Thanks for the link. Apparently mirrors enhance the heat of the solar. Simple yet effective
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,062 posts, read 2,551,106 times
Reputation: 1939
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Since the 80's the six most common air pollutants as an aggregate have been reduced 62%.

The law of diminishing returns begins to kick in.
I just don't know . The American Lung Association publishes some pretty disturbing air quality facts for major cities every year. We are not there yet. They state on their site that 5 out of 10 people live in places where the air quality is often too dangerous to breathe.

Home - State of the Air 2014 | American Lung Association
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,834,015 times
Reputation: 7801
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
Why do those in power like politicians think that the USA cannot have a sucessful economy without polluting the earth? Isn't it possible to live in harmony with nature and still have a strong healthy economy? Can't we get rid of polluting industries or improve them and still remain financially strong as a society?
Here is the deal... with 7 Billion peeps living on spaceship earth, that's with a "B"...there is no way we are going to leave this planet pristine as it was with say 1 Billion or less...not matter how we live or what we do...sorry about that.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Canada - Pakistan
108 posts, read 114,614 times
Reputation: 126
We are living in the age of technology. We have reached the other planets but why it is not possible for us to save our own planet earth and devise ways to produce the energy not on the price of the safety our environment and planet.
I think every thing the politicians do is for their own means. These politicians show us what they want to show and pretend that everything is all right but the situation of the environment is changing globally. The shut down of the nuclear plants is not possible now we have exceeded our limits to get the power.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:17 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,074,696 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
Thanks for the link. Apparently mirrors enhance the heat of the solar. Simple yet effective
They can concentrate it. See how big the mirror is relative to size of the metal?

Solar thermal is really interesting and cheaper than PV but only effective in a small amount of locales.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,451,115 times
Reputation: 10760
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Solar thermal is really interesting and cheaper than PV but only effective in a small amount of locales.
That used to be true, but cheap PV panels seem to have crossed the cost curve to become the lowest cost at the moment. It's not unusual today to be able to buy solar PV panels for less an $1/watt power rating. One of the biggest solar thermal plant builder/operators has recently announced they will only build solar PV systems in the future due to the lower complexity and cost.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:42 PM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,955,708 times
Reputation: 11491
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
That used to be true, but cheap PV panels seem to have crossed the cost curve to become the lowest cost at the moment. It's not unusual today to be able to buy solar PV panels for less an $1/watt power rating. One of the biggest solar thermal plant builder/operators has recently announced they will only build solar PV systems in the future due to the lower complexity and cost.
Not true. Concentrated solar will always be more cost effective than panels alone. No matter how low the costs of the panels get, the use of a heliostat can always provide a greater harvest that the panels by themselves.

If a panel costs 1 cent per watt of energy harvest, a heliostat will harvest more energy at less than 1 cent.

So a solar plant builder said something. That doesn't prove it true for everyone else. More cherry picking.
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