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I'll elaborate on my previous post. Killing creatures for sport is sick, we don't need the food to survive as native americans or even our ancestors did in the past. I've hiked in hunting areas and usually you can see where hunters have been by the trash they leave behind. Of course there's probably "well educated" hunters. Rich doesn't equal smart/compassionate. I love how we always try to justify what we as humans want. The same people who think there's nothing wrong with hunting probably think global warming is a myth.
Animals dont care why they are killed. How can it be better to raise a cow simply to make cheese burgers and then kill it after nurtureing it than it is to go out & take a deer out of the woods who was living its life as nature intended & died as nature intended? Everything in nature is waiting to get eaten, they spend their lives knowing that & avoiding it. That cow, if it can think, trusts that farmer, it doesn't know he's going to kill it & eat it.
Those areas you hike in were probably bought or aquired with hunting money. I hear alot of talk from hikers but never noticed them do much besides that. As a hunter I'v watched many hikers walking thru & leaving water bottles & energy bar wrappers where they sat. People can be slobs whatever their recreational choices but I bet you'v never watched a hunter leave crap in the woods. I'm sure some do though. But the fact remains that even those slobs pay into funds that support conservation while there is no similar fund for hikers. They could contribute a few hundered each year if they wanted but they dont.
People who think theres something wrong with modern hunting in America simply dont know what theyre talking about. Or they dislike a natural sustainable ballance.
Last edited by Tin Knocker; 07-26-2010 at 08:12 PM..
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
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Originally Posted by pittsteelers247
No. We were before guns were invented. Think about it. If we were in a completely natural state we would all be herbivores. What can you do with a set of fingernails and dull teeth.
Yes. There were humans before there were guns but our hominid ancestors had been fashioning cutting tools, hardening their spear points with fire, and using their ultra-efficient bipedal gait to drive ruminants and other galloping critters to exhaustion long before their were modern humans. Even with a set of fingernails and dull teeth, that noodle between your ears is the most awesome hunting adaptation the world has ever seen. As long as humans have been around we have always been able to out-plan and out-think, tie knots, set snares, drive herds, use fire, etc. etc. At what point do you think humans departed from the natural order? Humans are not natural herbivores; we are natural hunter-hunter gatherers who are designed to eat anything.
Last edited by jimboburnsy; 07-26-2010 at 08:28 PM..
Yes. There were humans before there were guns but our hominid ancestors had been fashioning cutting tools, hardening their spear points with fire, and using their ultra-efficient bipedal gait to drive ruminants and other galloping critters to exhaustion long before their were modern humans. Even with a set of fingernails and dull teeth, that noodle between your ears is the most awesome hunting adaptation the world has ever seen. As long as humans have been around we have always been able to out-plan and out-think, tie knots, set snares, drive herds, use fire, etc. etc. At what point do you think humans departed from the natural order? Humans are not natural herbivores; we are natural hunter-hunter gatherers who are designed to eat anything.
Well in a way, that's my pont. If you wanna go out and hunt an animal, show some skill and hunt it by tracking it down, and spearing it or something, then eating it. But if your going to go out and sit in a box all day until you see a deer and then shoot it from a protected site just because it has a full set of antlers or you want to put it's head on your wall, then that is what I disagree with.
No. We were before guns were invented. Think about it. If we were in a completely natural state we would all be herbivores. What can you do with a set of fingernails and dull teeth.
You seem generally reasonable on this subject, but I think it is you who does not think about it.
Humans are not natural herbivors. We are omnivores. We are not typical carnivorous predators, but we are natural both hunters and gatherers.
As several other posters have said/alluded to, simply because we lack the physical capacity to chase down wild boars or fly after ducks, does not mean the "natural state of things" resigns us (humans) to live on wild mushrooms and carrots!
Not trying to be flippant, but again, humans are naturally meat-eaters, even if some choose not to do so. God (or Nature, if one prefers...no biggie either way) did not give us the abilities of the tiger to kill its own meat. Nor the cow to exist off grass. What we got was the brains to create our own means of fulfiling our natural food desires. To wit, bows and arrows, guns, snares, traps for meat, and other ways to til the soil and grow potatoes and corn.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelers247
Well in a way, that's my pont. If you wanna go out and hunt an animal, show some skill and hunt it by tracking it down, and spearing it or something, then eating it. But if your going to go out and sit in a box all day until you see a deer and then shoot it from a protected site just because it has a full set of antlers or you want to put it's head on your wall, then that is what I disagree with.
I'm not sure that was your point at all, but okay, let's talk about that.
Have you ever killed an animal with an edged weapon? It isn't pretty. How about hunting on foot with a pack of dogs? That isn't pretty either. Both of these methods are as old as humans, require significant exertion and carry substantial risk of personal injury. I do not dispute that there is something to be said for "earning" your quarry, but these are ugly killing methods that also involve significant pain and fear for the game. You said in an earlier post that "killing animals for sport is sick" and we "don't need the food to survive as the native americans or even our ancestors did in the past". By condoning an antiquated, "unnecessary" method over modern ones you're either backtracking or trying to have it two ways. Why go out on foot and kill a furious and terrified animal with a blade or a spear when that same animal could be put down with a bullet in a manner at least as humane as the standards a slaughterhouse is held to? I'm not sure I'm following where you're going unless you just don't like hunting on some principle you adhere to that you don't even fully understand.
Also, we may not need game meat to survive in the manner that our ancestors did, but there is only one way to get wild venison, there is only one way to get wild duck, there is only one way to get wild goose, there is only one way to get wild dove, there is only one way to get (you get the idea).
I'm not sure that was your point at all, but okay, let's talk about that.
Have you ever killed an animal with an edged weapon? It isn't pretty. How about hunting on foot with a pack of dogs? That isn't pretty either. Both of these methods are as old as humans, require significant exertion and carry substantial risk of personal injury. I do not dispute that there is something to be said for "earning" your quarry, but these are ugly killing methods that also involve significant pain and fear for the game. You said in an earlier post that "killing animals for sport is sick" and we "don't need the food to survive as the native americans or even our ancestors did in the past". By condoning an antiquated, "unnecessary" method over modern ones you're either backtracking or trying to have it two ways. Why go out on foot and kill a furious and terrified animal with a blade or a spear when that same animal could be put down with a bullet in a manner at least as humane as the standards a slaughterhouse is held to? I'm not sure I'm following where you're going unless you just don't like hunting on some principle you adhere to that you don't even fully understand.
Also, we may not need game meat to survive in the manner that our ancestors did, but there is only one way to get wild venison, there is only one way to get wild duck, there is only one way to get wild goose, there is only one way to get wild dove, there is only one way to get (you get the idea).
(First off: This is not sarcasm. I realized after I wrote this it sounds sort of facetious, but I assure you it is not.)
You are absolutely right. I'm actually just spouting off whatever comes to mind. The fact of the matter is, I don't like hunting. I don't really eat meat, unless I am being treated to dinner at somebodys house for the sake of being polite. All I can really say to back up my opinion is just the fact that I love animals pretty much more than I love most humans. But that is not good enough a reason for people on this site so I (for the sake of debate), said whatever came to mind, whether it was factual or not. It's just to start discussion. I would never try to stop someone from hunting, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
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8,309 posts, read 38,774,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelers247
(First off: This is not sarcasm. I realized after I wrote this it sounds sort of facetious, but I assure you it is not.)
You are absolutely right. I'm actually just spouting off whatever comes to mind. The fact of the matter is, I don't like hunting. I don't really eat meat, unless I am being treated to dinner at somebodys house for the sake of being polite. All I can really say to back up my opinion is just the fact that I love animals pretty much more than I love most humans. But that is not good enough a reason for people on this site so I (for the sake of debate), said whatever came to mind, whether it was factual or not. It's just to start discussion. I would never try to stop someone from hunting, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
Okay, I can respect that - but I'm a little unsure what to do now... I'm not sure I've ever been involved in an internet debate that resulted in anything even remotely resembling a mutual understanding.
I hunt, and consider so-call modern man so removed from reality, that it is quite impossible to hold a discussion with the anti hunters, who know little, and care less about wild life. I am sayin' you can not hold a conversation with a person who thinks Bami is real, that in the wild nature is always nice, and butterflies land on your nose everyday. Nature is cruel and harsh. Nature sorts out the old and weak and they starve to death IF they are lucky, otherwise they are torn to bits ALIVE!
Little do they know hunters soley pay for game welfare thru license, and stamps.
Once on Thanksgiving i suffered a mouthy female stuffing her face with turkey, talking down on hunters. I had been hunting all morning. I was piseed to the point, that in silence I got up, walked taking her dish, and scraped the turkey she had on her plate and put it on my plate.
The look on her face was priceless.
Hunters seldom get lost in the wild. Non -hunters do all the time and find their cell phone is useless.
Hunters are educated in the wild and have skills non hunters don't, and i guess never will.
Some hunters are slob hunters that i don't agree with, but they just need a better education.
No game animal to me is simple meat. Any game animal to me is a whole took kit, plus meat. Nothing gets wasted, not a thing.
There is a lot of reality to your statements. Modern humans have become so far removed from the natural world that those in their suburban bliss overlooking a wooded horizon from their deck, eating sushi, and sipping Mojitos don't realize;
a.)how much wildlife was displaced to allow for their venue, which now, by virtue of their proximity to wildlife, puts them at risk for zoonotic diseases like Lyme, distemper, rabies as well as the possible actual confrontation with cornered, threatened wildlife.
b.) that the human encroachment on habitat now makes necessary a certain amount of hunting or culling of wildlife in order to maintain something resembling the original ecology which now is thrown out of whack by spreading human populations.
c.) that most hunters consume their kills and their quarry leads a far more desirable life than their domesticated cousins raised in filthy, crowded pens so they can be properly presented as various cuts wrapped in polyethylene at the local Safeway.
I take no issue with people who accept vegetarianism as a moral commitment, but many don't take into account how much petroleum is pumped out, at risk to the natural environment, to facilitate the manufacture, freighting, marketing, and promotion of their non-animal goods.
Excellent posts and points made above!!. And especially love the story about the turkey eating anti-hunting woman. ROFLMAO
What is really pathetic is, as noted, there are some (usually upper-class suburbanites) who actually do, on some level, believe Bambi is real. They really are oblivious to the simple fact that the meat they eat did not grow on trees; that the only difference from them and hunters is that they pay others to kill theirs for them.
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