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I don't need to call on the phone for information about economic conditions here in Hawaii. I volunteer at a local church helping distribute food from the food bank. In the past 3 years people in need have trippled and it's not getting any better.
Am I being negative or just telling the truth?
Here's a cell phone picture of people lining up for food:
I wanted to thank you all for the very valuable information! The negativity can be overwhelming, but in this economy, I may be more inclined to buy into the fact that it may indeed be quite difficult to live on $5000 a month in Hawaii.
I have a cousin who works for Norwegian Cruise Line and only does the Hawaiian cruises. While he's not a great resource, since most of the time he lives on the ship, he has also echoed much of what has been said about the cost of living.
You could move to Hawaii and scrabble around and get by on that amount of money with a family of four, but you'd have to scrabble around and live less well than on the mainland. Smaller house, more expensive stuff, much more crowded traffic and public areas, etc., but the weather would be much better. However, you could live well in Mississippi on that amount of money and take cruises on your cousin's ships now and then with the money you save in Mississippi.
Have you visited both places yet? That might help you decide.
Lomistick said: "When I recently asked about the massage business in Hawaii, a large number of people told me that the massage industry was doing horribly and one person even said that 4 out of 5 massage therapists were unemployed. After doing my own personal investigation by literally calling dozens of massage therapists and spas on Oahu, I have found all of the information I received on this forum to be completely false."
As one of those responding to your questions, I call bull**** on this slam. I specifically answered about conditions on the the Big Island, not Oahu, and I stand by what I said. And the Unemployment Office is reporting the same thing. Besides, how would you be able call the massage therapists who aren't working? Where would you find them listed?
"I have no idea why, but so many people that post here constantly say things like "You are not ready for Hawaii" or "Don't move here" or "The economy is terrible" or "the cost of living is super high." It is a broken record."
Well, the economy IS terrible. Really terrible. No intelligent person would deny that. We are in a major recession, unemployment is high, and tourism, the primary economic driver in Hawai'i, is down dramatically from only a few years ago.
Cost of living? Depends on what you're talking about. Overall the average pay for equivalent work is lower here than in many places in the country, and yet the median house price of $642,000 is the highest in the country. Still, I personally spend a good deal less here than I did in Texas, and I share lots of tips here on how to do that. Much of it involves changing your life style, because everything that has to be shipped in, which is a majority of consumer goods purchased here, costs more than it does on the mainland. Gas is 1/3 more expensive than it is on the mainland, and electricity is twice as expensive. If you don't realize this before you get here you cannot plan properly.
"I recommend making phone calls to people living in Hawaii that would have the information you are looking for."
I totally agree. This is good advice. However most of the people coming to this forum for advice don't know a lot of people to ask, obviously. Reading the local newspapers regularly (they're available online) is also very good, to help you get a feel for how things work here and what's actually going on. Like the recession.
And while I do see a certain amount of negativity expressed here, I think it is mostly well earned and duly expressed, because a lot of people living in Hawai'i are frustrated and pressed hard financially. So when people show up asking questions here with stars in their eyes and think that some magical thinking is going to protect them from the harsh realities, you have to expect a certain amount of naysaying. Give me your address and I'll send you the massage brochure I picked up today at the grocery store in which an experienced LMT says something like "Due to the terrible economic conditions, I'm temporarily making this special offer," and then offers massages at half her usual rates.
Don't slap down the people, like myself, who are trying to give accurate information here, rather than just unsubstantiated opinion.
Lomistick said: "When I recently asked about the massage business in Hawaii, a large number of people told me that the massage industry was doing horribly and one person even said that 4 out of 5 massage therapists were unemployed. After doing my own personal investigation by literally calling dozens of massage therapists and spas on Oahu, I have found all of the information I received on this forum to be completely false."
As one of those responding to your questions, I call bull**** on this slam. I specifically answered about conditions on the the Big Island, not Oahu, and I stand by what I said. And the Unemployment Office is reporting the same thing. Besides, how would you be able call the massage therapists who aren't working? Where would you find them listed?
"I have no idea why, but so many people that post here constantly say things like "You are not ready for Hawaii" or "Don't move here" or "The economy is terrible" or "the cost of living is super high." It is a broken record."
Well, the economy IS terrible. Really terrible. No intelligent person would deny that. We are in a major recession, unemployment is high, and tourism, the primary economic driver in Hawai'i, is down dramatically from only a few years ago.
Cost of living? Depends on what you're talking about. Overall the average pay for equivalent work is lower here than in many places in the country, and yet the median house price of $642,000 is the highest in the country. Still, I personally spend a good deal less here than I did in Texas, and I share lots of tips here on how to do that. Much of it involves changing your life style, because everything that has to be shipped in, which is a majority of consumer goods purchased here, costs more than it does on the mainland. Gas is 1/3 more expensive than it is on the mainland, and electricity is twice as expensive. If you don't realize this before you get here you cannot plan properly.
"I recommend making phone calls to people living in Hawaii that would have the information you are looking for."
I totally agree. This is good advice. However most of the people coming to this forum for advice don't know a lot of people to ask, obviously. Reading the local newspapers regularly (they're available online) is also very good, to help you get a feel for how things work here and what's actually going on. Like the recession.
And while I do see a certain amount of negativity expressed here, I think it is mostly well earned and duly expressed, because a lot of people living in Hawai'i are frustrated and pressed hard financially. So when people show up asking questions here with stars in their eyes and think that some magical thinking is going to protect them from the harsh realities, you have to expect a certain amount of naysaying. Give me your address and I'll send you the massage brochure I picked up today at the grocery store in which an experienced LMT says something like "Due to the terrible economic conditions, I'm temporarily making this special offer," and then offers massages at half her usual rates.
Don't slap down the people, like myself, who are trying to give accurate information here, rather than just unsubstantiated opinion.
OpenD
I didn't name names.
My post was not directed exclusively towards you, but to the overwhelming majority of people that preach terrible things about the situation in Hawaii.
And yes, your previous post effected me enough to spend 4 hours of my Christmas vacation on the phone long distance, calling spas and therapists on Oahu. The phone calls I made were not to the big island. According to everyone on Oahu, the massage therapy business is doing fine. There are openings available and nobody is starving.
You never once said that you were exclusively discussing the big island in that other thread. See for yourself. So of course I would be pissed when I found out that what you said was absolutely untrue about Oahu. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding, but you really effected me and my life in an extremely negative way with your apocalyptic warnings.
It's good to be safe and inform people, but don't crush everyone's hopes and dreams. Your posts made me so scared and nervous.
Relax on the "sky is falling" stuff. Dreams are beautiful. Let people dream.
The economy is FINE in my opinion. The recession is completely overrated.
It's just like the whole "terror" thing was. Everyone repeating the same Fox News garble in public conversation like zombies. Get a grip on yourselves.
Are you all still eating, sleeping in a soft clean bed, and wearing clothes? Good, now stop whining. I can think of a few people in Africa that wouldn't understand your complaints about not being able to buy a new flat screen TV this year.
Be grateful for what you have and the amazing abundance we all enjoy.
Can you honestly not see why I would be upset after having been completely and utterly misinformed? Next time SPECIFY that you are discussing the big island exclusively.
If you really want to truly help people, spare them the grim opinions and tell them where to find the factual information they are seeking. SHOW them that what you are saying is true with documented information.
A pamphlet? Who cares?
The economy has become "EL NINO"!
He should re-write his pamphlet to say "Due to the low quality of my junk massage techniques, stinky body odor, and poor social skills, I am now selling massages at half price." Don't blame everything on the economy. It's become a scapegoat for failure.
Nobody cares about a pamphlet.
SHOW US ALL A CHART, GRAPH, or an ARTICLE FROM A LEGITIMATE SOURCE SAYING THAT 4 out of 5 MASSAGE THERAPISTS ARE UNEMPLOYED IN HAWAII.
That is a ridiculous fictional number you came up with based on your own opinion.
I respect the fact that you are sincerely trying to help people, but I think you are doing more harm than good.
Well, that's wrap then, I guess
Those of us frequenting this Forum, who have lived in Hawaii for years, and who have seen many people come to the islands (and go), and who have worked in the economy here (including some even in the massage-service business), are being shown the errors of our ways and thinking by a ([n] apparently very young) fresh spirit who has never lived here, or worked here, or even worked in the field of personal services that they are contemplating a new career in -- but who clearly knows how to a dial phone.
Live and learn -- one is never too old or experienced to be humbled.
I stand on both sides of the fence on the "moving to Hawaii doom and gloom" and the "moving to Hawaii peaches and cream" I agree 100% that Hawaii is expensive compared to many places, but not excessivly so. I have found some items cheaper here, than on trips to the mainland and others more. Gas is about .50 a gal. more than my son on the mainland pays. He pays 5.00 a gallon for milk I pay less. and the list goes on. If you truely love a place you can and will make the nessary adjustments to your lifestyle. It is a great thing to try to help a person who has questions about Hawaii, but when talking about lifestyle and money I really dont think that anyone should say that they dont think the person could live here on XXXX amount of money. Simply because it costs "you" XXXX a month to live in Hawaii does not mean that it will cost the same for the next person. It does vary by where you live, what you do for entertainment, where you eat, what you eat, and the list goes on and on. My wife and I live very comfortable on a very small amount of retirement compared to what some of the posters say they will have available to them. No we dont live in a multi million dollar place, just a small 2 bedroom with a million dollar view. We dont go out alot, we have each other and our dog. When a place makes you truely happy and full of love you can get by on a lot less than most, with alot less worry. And, when you can wake up everyday in this beautiful place we call home, pay the bills, eat, have a little money left at the end of the month, and spend your life with the ones you love, my friends thats worth more than anything. You just cant put a dollar value on happiness. It would be nice to have unlimited funds and that million dollar home, but I feel I am much richer without all that goes with it. Hope every one has a wonderful new year time to go to the beach.
Depending upon the posters questions and info provided, I sometimes say give it a try and sometimes not! This OP asked for opinions between places I have personally lived, so I felt comfortable saying what I did.
In her shoes, I would go to MS. I also love the South, but thats me.
I like HI, enjoy the beaches, love hiking, hate the local food and wish my housing dollars went farther!
SHOW US ALL A CHART, GRAPH, or an ARTICLE FROM A LEGITIMATE SOURCE SAYING THAT 4 out of 5 MASSAGE THERAPISTS ARE UNEMPLOYED IN HAWAII.
No, 4 out of 5 licensed MTs are not unemployed on hawaii. That's not real.
I do know several licenese MTs and they would back the claim that maybe 1 or 2 out of 5 licensed MT's are unemployed depending on the season.
But they do say that they are underemployed. One thats a good friend use to be employed exclusive by one resort on a full time basis 10 years ago. Back at that time, licensed MT's were in high demand to fill resort and medical positions. Now she said that they work piece work being called in when needed undera contract basis. The resorts have layed off all their staff MTs due to economy. Agencies are always looking for licensed MTs to fill these needs but you may only get a couple of sessions a week instead of several a day.
She did say that Hawaii does not have a reciprical licesnse with other states so people who come as a MT looks for work but not find much so they dont spend the money getting licesed and take other types of jobs. The amount of licensed MTs are actually small compared to the total former licensed Mts that have not been licensed because they can't find work that can carry them doing that alone.
A person who gets a Hawaii MT license will find work, just how much and if you can survive on that alone is the question. That is where I would say to start. There is a ad that appears in our trade magazine for a person to work tarnsport logistics on Hawaii. The pay is great and I have others asking me why I don;t take that job. I tellt hem although it looks like they are desperate for an employee, it's not full time but contract so getting $75 an hour but only working 3 to 4 hours a week ain't gonna cut it. If you can get a full time average pay MT job you might be able to work it out, but if the jobs are all a hour here or hour there, is that going to work for your needs?
Well, that's wrap then, I guess
Those of us frequenting this Forum, who have lived in Hawaii for years, and who have seen many people come to the islands (and go), and who have worked in the economy here (including some even in the massage-service business), are being shown the errors of our ways and thinking by a ([n] apparently very young) fresh spirit who has never lived here, or worked here, or even worked in the field of personal services that they are contemplating a new career in -- but who clearly knows how to a dial phone.
Live and learn -- one is never too old or experienced to be humbled.
Wow, what's the view like sitting in your tower?
Yes, life is filled with humbling experiences. Perhaps you haven't had enough of them to knock you off your high horse yet.
Though I know your remark was sarcastic, you are correct in that I am showing you the error in your ways, but you are wrong about everything else.
1) I have lived in Hawaii.
2) I have worked in Hawaii.
3) I have worked in personal services for many years.
4) I am not very young.
5) I will not fail in Hawaii. It will be the best time of my life as it was before.
The most asinine part of your post was that you mocked the fact that I used a phone to get in contact with people far more experienced and knowledgeable about the massage industry than anyone on this board, including you. Doesn't that strike you as foolish?
Why would I trust a stranger on the internet over a dozen veteran therapists living in Honolulu that I spoke to personally? Think about that one.
*lightbulb*
Guess what man? There are many intelligent people in the world capable of making educated, informed, and excellent life decisions that lead to great success.
Note to people reading this:
Naysayers suck. Don't let them keep you down. There is way too much negativity in the world.
The world is full of failures that tried something, were not successful, and then feel the need to let the world know that it is impossible to accomplish.
Don't let other people tell you what you can and can't do. You can do ANYTHING you put your mind to.
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