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And then there is the argument that just because the Hawaiians lost control of their land to a powerful empire and became a minority that voted for statehood (some sort of Stockholm syndrome), doesn't invalidate the Hawaiian renaissance and sovereignty claims.
I've neither brushed off or taken a position on the Hawaiian language/culture components you keep telling me I've brushed off - I don't know enough about the subject - I do know from research - it seems there was a lot of excitement even among native Hawaiians in 1959 to become a state and the sovereignty movement seems almost across the board started in the 70's and 80's when coincidentally (or not so coincidentally) the honeymoon of statehood was over due to changing enconomic conditions transitioning from the growth in 60's to the more stagnant 70's/80's and Hawaii really transformed itself much more rapidly from a agricultural state to a hospitality state.
I'd like to hear more on this position regarding Hawaiians losing control of their land. Did they ever really have control of it? Wasn't the land in the 1890's broken down to government land which was tightly controlled, royal land, and private land. It is my understanding private land wasn't given up - and yes, the US and new territory grabbed the government and royal lands - but was that ever really the Hawaiians land - I mean, would a Hawaiian in 1880 look at the goverment and royal land and say - yep, that's my land?
Here on Kaua'i, we have the Polynesian Kingdom of Atooi, but I'm not sure what their position is on Kamehameha and/or being separate from the rest of the state. You'd have to ask them:
I finally had time to read through their website and watch their videos. While I found it very interesting, it was also confusing and in my opinion, lacked much real information. I am not sure who these people are, what land they actually own, what their plans are, etc... I did a web search on them and didn't find much info. I did get this off of Wikipedia - Dayne Aleka Aipoalani of Kekaha on the island of Kauaʻi founded a group called the Polynesian Kingdom of Atooi. "Atooi" was the spelling of the local pronuciation of Kauaʻi by the first British visitors in 1778. He contrasts his group to others, saying: "We welcome everyone, including landowners who are already here. Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians." He established relations with the group Te Moana Nui A Kiva (Royal Union of Pacific Nations), which supports other Polynesian indigenous people.
From that I got that he wants to be the king of Kaua'i and welcomes everyone there to join him no matter what their race is.
I finally had time to read through their website and watch their videos. While I found it very interesting, it was also confusing and in my opinion, lacked much real information. I am not sure who these people are, what land they actually own, what their plans are, etc... I did a web search on them and didn't find much info. I did get this off of Wikipedia - Dayne Aleka Aipoalani of Kekaha on the island of Kauaʻi founded a group called the Polynesian Kingdom of Atooi. "Atooi" was the spelling of the local pronuciation of Kauaʻi by the first British visitors in 1778. He contrasts his group to others, saying: "We welcome everyone, including landowners who are already here. Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians." He established relations with the group Te Moana Nui A Kiva (Royal Union of Pacific Nations), which supports other Polynesian indigenous people.
From that I got that he wants to be the king of Kaua'i and welcomes everyone there to join him no matter what their race is.
For the most part, he's a "crackpot" along with others that currently fashion themselves to be rulers, ministers, etc. of assorted Hawaiian "kingdoms."
For the most part, he's a "crackpot" along with others that currently fashion themselves to be rulers, ministers, etc. of assorted Hawaiian "kingdoms."
Simply stated, for those who don't want to wade through all the verbiage, before Kamehameha "united" the islands into one monarchy, there were lots of kings, at least one for every island, and in the case of the Big Island, several.
Thanks for the links. It should make for some FUN reading tonight!
Those are just the ones that are technologically-saavy enough to have a website or other presence on the internet...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
Simply stated, for those who don't want to wade through all the verbiage, before Kamehameha "united" the islands into one monarchy, there were lots of kings, at least one for every island, and in the case of the Big Island, several.
Actually, there weren't any "kings" or "queens" in Hawaiʻi prior to the arrival of the Europeans. Traditionally, all we had were several levels of aliʻi (chiefs). High chiefs that held sway over most of a particular district or island were referred to as aliʻi ʻaimoku. Unfortunately, many Europeans were unfamiliar with the complexities of the traditional Hawaiian political system and mistakenly viewed the aliʻi ʻaimoku as "kings." Furthermore, the Hawaiian monarchy would have never been established without the influence of John Young (aka ʻOlohana) and Isaac Davis (aka ʻAikake) who were Europeans that served as advisors to Kamehameha. Young and Davis provided Kamehameha with the knowledge of European monarchial systems as well as the military knowledge and technology to establish a monarchy in Hawaiʻi. While nearly all of these modern-day Hawaiian "kingdoms" remain fixated on the 1893 overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy, few of them acknowledge how the monarchy was originally established and are willing to admit that it's a foreign concept.
While nearly all of these modern-day Hawaiian "kingdoms" remain fixated on the 1893 overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy, few of them acknowledge how the monarchy was originally established and are willing to admit that it's a foreign concept.
That's because many people practice the "pick and choose method" when studying details of Hawaiian history.
Way back... The kingdom owned all the land - and if they gave land to someone, when that person died, the kingdom got the land back...This means that the Hawaiian PEOPLE never actually owned land. They just had the use of it. Something to think about....
There is a real conflict between my Hawaiian heritage and my pride in being an American. I Served in the US Army and was in Germany when there were so many anti-American demonstrations and terrorism. Our PX (Frankfurt) was bombed.
As I was born both Hawaiian and American I do have anger and sorrow for the way my people have been treated and for the overthrow of our Queen and the denigration of our Princess Royal by the American people.
It is not an easy relationship. Oh, I am also Native American, so I am pulled in many directions.
As I understand it was the plantation families who overthrew the queen, with the help of a rogue US Navy officer. The US government didn't support the overthrow and didn't recognize the new Hawaii government until a new president came into office.
BTW, why are the same plantation families still respected in Hawaii? Are people unaware of the history?
That's because many people practice the "pick and choose method" when studying details of Hawaiian history.
Not just Hawaiian history... there is very little about the Native Americans in the history books. Where were they when.... What was there roll in the make up of the US?
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