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God man, they weren't a small percentage intill they met westerners! Another thing you guys take advantage of and use in your favor. Samething happened to the native americans. from 300,000 - 500,000 to 10,000 at vote of statehood thats almost genecide!
You're confusing issues and posters here now, just randomly slashing at anyone who disagrees with you, and as McFrosty pointed out, not dealing at all with compelling questions others have asked or with their significant rebuttal to your arguments. Sorry, it seems to me too that you're really losing it.
The native Hawaiian population at "first contact," and its decline to 40,000 by 1893, but still comprising 84% of the population at that time, has absolutely nothing to do with genocide, and you should be embarrassed and apologetic at making the suggestion. As tragic as that decline was, it was purely the accidental result of kanaka maolis having no natural immunity to European diseases. And the supposed further decline to only 10,000 of pure heritage by the time of the plebiscite vote is not a sign of a conspiracy or government strategy, but simply demonstrates the melting pot nature of our diverse culture. Intermarriage between people of different ancestry and heritage is natural and normal when cultures mix closely. That's human nature at work, not politicians "rigging the election."
Likewise lashing out at people for being caucasian is racism, pure and simple. You say repeatedly that you are not racist, but you keep pulling the race card, over and over.
I think you should chill out and consider why you're getting so emotionally worked up about this issue, of which you are not even a stakeholder currently. Read some Don Quixote. Go for a walk. Watch the sunset. Eat a peach.
Find a 1 in a hundred who doesn't say it was a good thing.
Of course it was a good thing, if for no other reason than if WE didn't control it, somebody ELSE would control it, and they would use it as a base of operations to do bad things to good people. Try to look big picture, instead of only at those who might have come out on the short end of the perception-stick. Some assert, and properly so, that the Monarch was illegal because it came about by use of force. So I do think people are being a bit selective playing the "use-of-force" card.
I challenge you to build a case that on NET, the U.S. displacing the Monarchy, and then allowing Hawaii to become a state, was a bad thing. Overall, NET bad thing.
are you willing to come to the next OHA.... Kanaiolowalu meeting? I can shoyu a room full of people who will say it wasn't a good thing.
you are also welcome to speak publicly and express your views and opinions in-front of them.
the big picture..... accordin g to the 5F 20% of all ceded land revenues were to go to the native hawaiians So, why only give 2% some 600 million at one time was owed... you think they want handouts or they want what was rightfully there's. Like the Native american. they trying to sell the lands out form under us.
build a case... for you. lol you're so not worth my time
Not one in a thousand agrees with you, and not 1 in 10,000 wants to reverse statehood. A few kooks and agenda-pursuers. And if we did cast you adrift, it wouldn't be a year before somebody with a name like "Peoples Republic of...." gobbles you up. Out of the refrigerator, into the blast-furnace. Some people don't know when they are well off!!!
I wish I was cast adrift..... the Hoku'leia left already....
You're confusing issues and posters here now, just randomly slashing at anyone who disagrees with you, and as McFrosty pointed out, not dealing at all with compelling questions others have asked or with their significant rebuttal to your arguments. Sorry, it seems to me too that you're really losing it.
The native Hawaiian population at "first contact," and its decline to 40,000 by 1893, but still comprising 84% of the population at that time, has absolutely nothing to do with genocide, and you should be embarrassed and apologetic at making the suggestion. As tragic as that decline was, it was purely the accidental result of kanaka maolis having no natural immunity to European diseases. And the supposed further decline to only 10,000 of pure heritage by the time of the plebiscite vote is not a sign of a conspiracy or government strategy, but simply demonstrates the melting pot nature of our diverse culture. Intermarriage between people of different ancestry and heritage is natural and normal when cultures mix closely. That's human nature at work, not politicians "rigging the election."
Likewise lashing out at people for being caucasian is racism, pure and simple. You say repeatedly that you are not racist, but you keep pulling the race card, over and over.
I think you should chill out and consider why you're getting so emotionally worked up about this issue, of which you are not even a stakeholder currently. Read some Don Quixote. Go for a walk. Watch the sunset. Eat a peach.
Seriously.
I know OpenD there is a explanation and justification for everything. I mean how tragic it was for native hawaiians and indians to not have natural immunity to western illness. but how sad was it that western explores didnt have the insight to know that there illnrsses could kill others? Its obvious you dont know how very similar the native americans and native hawaiians history is regarding westerners etc. To say i dont have a stake is absurd. Further stop making everything a race thing. Everytime a local or native hawaiian issue is brought up that doesnt purpose maintaining the status quo, you, viper and etc etc are always putting 3x the effort in opposing it. I cant help but notice you all are Caucasian? You call me a radical etc but whats funny is not any of our native community has said anything except support of the issues. Im sick of this every wrong agsinst the native nations are always rationalised and justified minnimized or accidents by my cacausian bruddahs. I would prefer you would say sorry, we will kearn from it and move on. But instead of you just change the victems and get more smug in your attitude of might is right or americas rightous destiny.
You do know it was a small handful of rich surgercane and other industrials who overthrew the Queen who represented the Hawai'ian kingdom right?
And all along I thought you were saying it was the US Government that overthrew the Monarchy. I stand corrected and accept your explanation above.
And of course, many of those individuals who overthrew the Monarchy were born and raised in Hawaii. In my book, that makes them every bit as much Hawaiian as anyone else.
Yes, I do also believe it was about money and control more than anything else. Just as I believe the current players who want the Monarchy restored are just about money and control as well. No different really.
I respect and share your love for the land and cultures. But I truly believe a Monarchy is the ultimate rigging of the deck and that disenfranchising people who have lived in Hawaii for generations so only people of a certain race can vote is not much different than an apartheid type set up.
And if an apology and learning from the events of the past is what it takes, then it is difficult for me to apologize and take responsibility for people I don't know and who died 100 yrs ago only because they share the same skin color as I do. But I can and do learn from the past and want a better future for everyone.
I use my own logic and common sense, and, of course, the lessons of history. Statehood was the best thing ever to happen to Hawaii.
Anyone disagree??
OK. Prove your case, since "logic," "common sense," and learning from the "lessons of history" are rare commodities in the halls of academia and the U.S. Government. I'll give you "bonus points" if you throw in "rational choice theory."
See this is what im saying, your so focused on the monarchy that your ignoring the real issue, the real issue being able to have self determination which i feel from the evidence and information we have, we never really gave the kanaka maoli that right. We didn't vote for annexation, in the statehood vote all the native hawaiians or nation of hawaii citizens could of all votted no and it wouldn't have made any difference.
At least a vote of self determination is in order. Even if our brothers the kanaka maoli do deside to just be americans i would be happy with that. At least we gave them self determination. I also believe we could in the future listen to what natives are saying. In the anti annexation petitions the majority of native hawaiians were saying no to america. The statehood vote 90% of kanaka maoli votted no in one votting district (to bad we don't have all the votting records) etc etc. Enough said Aloha and great day.
And all along I thought you were saying it was the US Government that overthrew the Monarchy. I stand corrected and accept your explanation above.
And of course, many of those individuals who overthrew the Monarchy were born and raised in Hawaii. In my book, that makes them every bit as much Hawaiian as anyone else.
Yes, I do also believe it was about money and control more than anything else. Just as I believe the current players who want the Monarchy restored are just about money and control as well. No different really.
I respect and share your love for the land and cultures. But I truly believe a Monarchy is the ultimate rigging of the deck and that disenfranchising people who have lived in Hawaii for generations so only people of a certain race can vote is not much different than an apartheid type set up.
And if an apology and learning from the events of the past is what it takes, then it is difficult for me to apologize and take responsibility for people I don't know and who died 100 yrs ago only because they share the same skin color as I do. But I can and do learn from the past and want a better future for everyone.
Excellent post! I wish it would allow me to give you another Rep Point!
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