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It's ironic someone speaking about a perceived smug superiority in the history of one race asserts that locals are correct by acting smug and arrogant. First, this is faulty logic because I shouldn't be sent to prison when my grandfather committed murder. I am only responsible for my actions.
Hawaiians and locals are NOT the only people to suffer oppression. There are many in America with similar ancestorial stories--some much worse. We shouldn't forget history, but we can't live in it either. In short, those guilty are gone. Hawaii is an American State. Nothing you mention is happening today, and you are not exceptional in oppression. It happened to many groups.
Second, let's assume your blame the grandchildren of the guilty theory had any merit. You can still not justify a wrong with a wrong. I can't steal your television because your grandfather stole my grandfather's radio. It is very illogical because there would be no end. Think of the groups in our country and imagine all of them went after other groups who mistreated their ancestors. No one would be left!
I'm simply pointing out the history of Hawaii and why native Hawaiians and locals have an issue with mainlanders. No your not correct. No other part of mainland has a history like Hawaii"s . You know back in history rich outsiders were not responsible for there own behavior either, they cited that they are doing God's work or doing locals and natives a favor since they were uneducated or they were superior and it's was there right to do what they did. I'm not saying generalizations of one race is ok. What I'm saying is the word haole and the attitudes towards haoles is minor compared to the oppression that haoles caused to locals and native Hawaiians even in recent history. No where in Hawaii history and we are talking Hawaii has native Hawaiians or locals disregarded law and hang a bunch of haoles for touching a local woman or Hawaiian woman. No where in America's history or Hawaii s have haole Americans been rounded up an put in prison camps and to forfeit there homes, properties and business. Later in history it was found that not one local ameican was found guilty of anything wrong. Most still didn't get back there property etc . Yes it's tragic and yes it's in the past. But for a lot of locals it's still recent history. When haoles or transplants make a big stink about a word or attitude, it just feeds into the stereotype s of what locals say is true. That it's obvious you believe your better then when you scream about racism over a word. but dismiss everything else. The same attitudes of the past are still here in present hawaii only we just use different tactics or words, like progress and profits etc. You may not like it and it's not political correctness but it's the truth. and no justification can escape that. Aloha
It's ironic someone speaking about a perceived smug superiority in the history of one race asserts that locals are correct by acting smug and arrogant. First, this is faulty logic because I shouldn't be sent to prison when my grandfather committed murder. I am only responsible for my actions.
Hawaiians and locals are NOT the only people to suffer oppression. There are many in America with similar ancestorial stories--some much worse. We shouldn't forget history, but we can't live in it either. In short, those guilty are gone. Hawaii is an American State. Nothing you mention is happening today, and you are not exceptional in oppression. It happened to many groups.
Second, let's assume your blame the grandchildren of the guilty theory had any merit. You can still not justify a wrong with a wrong. I can't steal your television because your grandfather stole my grandfather's radio. It is very illogical because there would be no end. Think of the groups in our country and imagine all of them went after other groups who mistreated their ancestors. No one would be left!
While that's an interesting sentiment, the actions of some folks in the U.S. Federal Government are somewhat contrary. I'll simply mention the fact that the U.S. Congress passed Public Law 103-150 (aka the "Apology Resolution") in 1993 and that some folks believe it's tantamount to an official acceptance of the "blaming the grandchildren of the guilty" theory.
While that's an interesting sentiment, the actions of some folks in the U.S. Federal Government are somewhat contrary. I'll simply mention the fact that the U.S. Congress passed Public Law 103-150 (aka the "Apology Resolution" in 1993 and that some folks believe it's tantamount to an official acceptance of the "blaming the grandchildren of the guilty" theory.
You appear to be an intelligent man Jonah k. Is what your saying bad? Our world is full of race based stuff and racism. People could say wealth inequality is race based because it's difficult to believe that one race just has values that make it more richer then others? I assume your Native Hawaiian and I do enjoy your posts.
Hawaii is legally a part of America. Culturally we are heavily influenced by America and proud of it. Nisei Japanese in World War II signed up to fight in the 442nd to show they were Americans and not Japanese. However there are clear societal norms and cultural mores unique to Hawaii at least in the sense that it is perceptible that non-locals violate the norms and mores unintentionally and unwittingly.
For many transplants their perception is that since Hawaii is part of America then American societal norms should be the standard. However only 38% of the population is fully or partially Caucasian. 58% of the population is fully or partially Asian. If we examine demographics for being fully of one ethnic background, only 24% are fully Caucasian and 42% are fully of one Asian ethnic group with Japanese and Filipino being the largest represented at 16% and 14% respectively. What this all means is that over 50% of the population is descended from immigrant workers from Asian rather than North America. I haven't formally broken down the demographics by age but I would hazard that a majority portion of that population is third generation which means they likely grew up in households with limited or non-English speaking grandparents.
There would be little reason for locals in Hawaii to be following a cultural and behavioral standard from 1000 miles away that they do not have have ancestral roots in. This is a causational point not a judgmental one, it would have been an incredible coincidence for locals to have adopted American standards. However mass communication and exportation of American culture have continued to Americanize local culture especially as time passes and locals become generationally distant from their cultural roots.
In short, local culture is distinct and has inertia because of demographic, cultural, and economic dominance. Although there have been some localized shifts collectively mainland transplants are diffuse and short-term without the critical mass to overcome absorption into the larger local population and conformity to local culture. In the short term and on an individual scale mainland transplants are subject to local standards without much power to resist or change them in return.
Hawaii is legally a part of America. Culturally we are heavily influenced by America and proud of it. Nisei Japanese in World War II signed up to fight in the 442nd to show they were Americans and not Japanese. However there are clear societal norms and cultural mores unique to Hawaii at least in the sense that it is perceptible that non-locals violate the norms and mores unintentionally and unwittingly.
While Hawaiʻi is technically part of the United States, it is not part of the North American continent. As to the "legality" of the acquistion of Hawaiʻi by the United States -- it's debatable. In any event, the previously mentioned 1993 "Apology Resolution" affirms that the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy was illegal and that the United States obtained Hawaiʻi as a result of that illegal act. In previous posts (most notably Post #1 and Post #9), you assert that the culture of Hawaiʻi has a "strong Asian influence." However, now you're asserting that "we are heavily influenced by America and proud of it." You might need to re-examine the components of the culture of Hawaiʻi a little bit before expounding upon it. Things like hula, lei, poi, ukuleles, etc. didn't exactly come from Asia or the United States. Sadly, while your opinions and views might reflect those of a subset of "Asian settlers," they don't necessarily reflect the opinions and views of many locals of Hawaiian ancestry.
The history of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team during WWII is an interesting one; however, it wasn't comprised of just "Nisei Japanese" -- it had folks of non-Japanese descent, such as Kim Young-Oak. The history of the "no-no boys" and the kibei during WWII is just as interesting. Whether they fought for the United States or not, most "Nisei Japanese" still had to deal with discrimination after WWII.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
For many transplants their perception is that since Hawaii is part of America then American societal norms should be the standard. However only 38% of the population is fully or partially Caucasian. 58% of the population is fully or partially Asian. If we examine demographics for being fully of one ethnic background, only 24% are fully Caucasian and 42% are fully of one Asian ethnic group with Japanese and Filipino being the largest represented at 16% and 14% respectively. What this all means is that over 50% of the population is descended from immigrant workers from Asian rather than North America. I haven't formally broken down the demographics by age but I would hazard that a majority portion of that population is third generation which means they likely grew up in households with limited or non-English speaking grandparents.
You might need to do some research to support your demographic "statistics." Here's a link that might prove helpful... Hawaiʻi State Data Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
There would be little reason for locals in Hawaii to be following a cultural and behavioral standard from 1000 miles away that they do not have have ancestral roots in. This is a causational point not a judgmental one, it would have been an incredible coincidence for locals to have adopted American standards. However mass communication and exportation of American culture have continued to Americanize local culture especially as time passes and locals become generationally distant from their cultural roots.
The Hawaiian Archipelago lies approximately 2,500 miles away from the nearest land mass. As for the "Americanization" of local culture, quite a few local folks in Hawaiʻi watch Korean soap operas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
In short, local culture is distinct and has inertia because of demographic, cultural, and economic dominance. Although there have been some localized shifts collectively mainland transplants are diffuse and short-term without the critical mass to overcome absorption into the larger local population and conformity to local culture. In the short term and on an individual scale mainland transplants are subject to local standards without much power to resist or change them in return.
It could be argued that "local culture" is highly adaptable. Considering the popularity of "Jawaiian" music among many locals, let's just say that the importance of "demographics" might be overblown.
Legal as in our legal and governmental structure rather than the legal status of the acquisition of Hawaii. Culture is not mutually exclusive, local culture was heavily influenced by Japanese immigrants during the Japanese migration waves, it was heavily influenced by American culture during Americanization efforts in the early 20th century and with the rise of mass communication and there was a substantial rise in Filipino culture during the immigration in the 1960s which has now lead to them being the 3rd largest ethnic group in Hawaii. Native Hawaiian culture suffered greatly over the years with the decline in the population. It is because of the current Hawaiian Cultural Renaissance and the efforts of passionate people that it lives on.
The 442nd and 100th battalion wasn't exclusively Nisei but all the enlisted men were Nisei. In any case the point was many Japanese-American men signed up to fight for America in WWII, not the demographics of the 442nd.
My statistics are based on the census, do you feel there is a significant statistical deviation in my data enough to invalidate my conclusion? If so what is it?
Korean soap operas is a relatively recent development which is hardly unique to Hawaii, Korean culture has seen a global rise over the past few years. In general Americanization is a global concept because culture is essentially our top export in the form of music, movies, brands, etc.
Jawaiian music is hardly indicative of a major shift in culture. Rachael Ray has made EVOO nearly a household staple even here in Hawaii but that doesn't mean pasta or risotto has replaced sticky rice in the local diet. You're focused on cultural ephemera.
As I said individual transplants alone do not have the power to change local culture. However, in the long term local culture will change. America is a cultural powerhouse and with developments in mass communication it proliferates quicker than ever. Within a generation or two I don't expect there to be much difference between Hawaii and the mainland. There will be Hawaiian architecture and street signs, there will be poi, hula and ipus but as I said that's the trappings of culture. The differences in social cues, cultural thought, and even inflection will be normalized to mainland American standards.
However, in the long term local culture will change. America is a cultural powerhouse and with developments in mass communication it proliferates quicker than ever. Within a generation or two I don't expect there to be much difference between Hawaii and the mainland.
You are a bit late to the party - at least here in Honolulu, the cultural difference between Honolulu and many mainland cities is only slightly different at best.
I'm a transplant, haole, and introvert. Ever since I got to the island people are inviting me over or stopping by. Sometimes more so than I'm comfortable with. We had a family over who are Free Hawaii / End the Occupation activists over for Thanksgiving. Everybody had a great time and hugs all around.
You can't find cultural differences without looking for them. Maybe next time try looking for the things that bring cultures together rather than the things that make us different.
As far as cronyism, nepotism, racism, sexism etc in employment, is it in Hawaii? ABSOLUTELY. The same can be said for everywhere else I've worked too.
Not surprising, changes happen fastest in cosmopolitan urban areas.
I have a lot of haole friends, part of the reason I've been to so many farewell parties. It's not that you can't form friendships or overcome differences. However, that is not to say that those differences don't exist.
As an introvert have you ever had an extroverted friend say something with an emphasis or inflection that shows they experience situations differently from you that also shows they don't understand that either? Have you ever caught the eye of another friend who is an introvert and realized both of you are thinking the same thing, "He/she just doesn't get it." This is what the local experience with a transplant is like.
Cultural differences don't need to be a barrier and shouldn't be one to forming deeper bonds but it helps no one to pretend they don't exist.
It is common knowledge that, generally speaking, Caucasians are inherently more arrogant when compared to Asians. Mainland transplants that display introversion and meekness will have a much easier time assimilating into local culture.
I'm appalled by the way men catcall women when I go to mainland cities. To think that this is even remotely tolerated blows my mind. You will very rarely see this kind of rude, obnoxious, blatantly disgusting behavior among local people.
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