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Stereotypes are always based on "common knowledge". And are wrong as often as they are right, but observational bias reinforces those stereotypes. Categorizing all Caucasians as "outspoken and arrogant" says more about you than it does the group you are trying to denigrate, and it isn't very flattering...
But have a nice day.
Mahalo.
Please let me know where I made that statement. A quote from my post would work great.
Stereotypes are always based on "common knowledge". And are wrong as often as they are right, but observational bias reinforces those stereotypes. Categorizing all Caucasians as "outspoken and arrogant" says more about you than it does the group you are trying to denigrate, and it isn't very flattering...
But have a nice day.
Mahalo.
It's amazing despite the examples in Hawaii history and stuff happening now you cling to this ideal that haoles are victims? what I believe pj737 is trying to say is there are cultural differences between traditional values of western cultures vs Asian or even local hawaii. In western society the empesis is on the individual when in Asian/local Hawaii culture it was on the group, Ohana or community over self. Because the focus was on the traditional values of individuals or self in western society, this tends to lead westerners to take actions based on self rather then how there actions effectted everyone around them. Thus a label of being selfish or arrogant Even now as we are talking about this issue the concern is on the inconvenience of being called haole or the transplant attitude that some locals have towards Caucasians etc, and not on true equality for all. Thou I would agree that not every Caucasian is rude, ill mannered etc etc it is also true that most mainlanders left with the choice between doing what's right for self vs group that most will choose self. It's just how things are in the culture. I agree with pj sometimes political correctness doesn't work in Hawaii.
It's amazing despite the examples in Hawaii history and stuff happening now you cling to this ideal that haoles are victims? what I believe pj737 is trying to say is there are cultural differences between traditional values of western cultures vs Asian or even local hawaii. In western society the empesis is on the individual when in Asian/local Hawaii culture it was on the group, Ohana or community over self. Because the focus was on the traditional values of individuals or self in western society, this tends to lead westerners to take actions based on self rather then how there actions effectted everyone around them. Thus a label of being selfish or arrogant Even now as we are talking about this issue the concern is on the inconvenience of being called haole or the transplant attitude that some locals have towards Caucasians etc, and not on true equality for all. Thou I would agree that not every Caucasian is rude, ill mannered etc etc it is also true that most mainlanders left with the choice between doing what's right for self vs group that most will choose self. It's just how things are in the culture. I agree with pj sometimes political correctness doesn't work in Hawaii.
(a) I never said haoles are victims. Not sure where you got that. (b) what pj said is pretty clear - white folks are "outspoken and arrogant" (c) this has nothing to do with being PC - it's about painting all white people (which includes most of Europe with a wide variety of cultural norms) with the same brush.
btw, we were in Europe a couple of years ago and the rudest tourist we encountered were always the Asians. For example, I was trying to help my wife, who has some mobility issues, get around the Louvre and we were run over by a couple dozen middle age Asians.
But have a nice day!
Mahalo
p.s. - I'm done with this conversation.
Culture is not mutually exclusive, local culture was heavily influenced by Japanese immigrants during the Japanese migration waves, it was heavily influenced by American culture during Americanization efforts in the early 20th century and with the rise of mass communication and there was a substantial rise in Filipino culture during the immigration in the 1960s which has now lead to them being the 3rd largest ethnic group in Hawaii. Native Hawaiian culture suffered greatly over the years with the decline in the population. It is because of the current Hawaiian Cultural Renaissance and the efforts of passionate people that it lives on.
The "run-on" sentence in the above paragraph shows a woeful lack of facility with the English language, sociology, Japanese American history, and Hawaiian history. As a former educator, it's sad that some of my contemporaries may have failed to do their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
The 442nd and 100th battalion wasn't exclusively Nisei but all the enlisted men were Nisei. In any case the point was many Japanese-American men signed up to fight for America in WWII, not the demographics of the 442nd.
Many Japanese American men, such as Fred Korematsu and Gordon Hirabayashi didn't sign up to fight for "America" during WWII. Over 12,000 "no-no boys" who refused to serve in the U.S. armed forces, swear allegiance to the United States, and forswear allegiance to the Japanese emperor were incarcerated at the "Tule Lake Segregation Center." Some Japanese American men even served in the Japanese Imperial Army and Navy during WWII. Brothers went to war, but not all on the same side - CNN.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
My statistics are based on the census, do you feel there is a significant statistical deviation in my data enough to invalidate my conclusion? If so what is it?
Korean soap operas is a relatively recent development which is hardly unique to Hawaii, Korean culture has seen a global rise over the past few years. In general Americanization is a global concept because culture is essentially our top export in the form of music, movies, brands, etc.
Jawaiian music is hardly indicative of a major shift in culture. Rachael Ray has made EVOO nearly a household staple even here in Hawaii but that doesn't mean pasta or risotto has replaced sticky rice in the local diet. You're focused on cultural ephemera.
"Cultural ephemera?" Jawaiian music has been around for over 30 years -- it's the music of the so-called "Hawaiian Cultural Renaissance" that you previously mentioned and it's unlikely to disappear anytime soon. Jawaiian: Hawaii's Reggae Music Reggae and Hawaiʻi
As for "pasta" in the "local" diet, it's found in many "plate lunches" in the form of "macaroni salad."
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
As I said individual transplants alone do not have the power to change local culture. However, in the long term local culture will change.
That's debatable. Anyone knowledgeable about Hawaiian history realizes that individual "transplants" can have the power to change "local" culture. "Transplants," such as John Young and Isaac Davis during the late 18th Century, Elizabeth Sinclair during the 19th Century, James Dole during the early 20th Century, Henry J. Kaiser during mid-20th Century, and Pierre Omidyar during the 21st Century have all changed "local" culture in Hawai'i.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
America is a cultural powerhouse and with developments in mass communication it proliferates quicker than ever. Within a generation or two I don't expect there to be much difference between Hawaii and the mainland. There will be Hawaiian architecture and street signs, there will be poi, hula and ipus but as I said that's the trappings of culture. The differences in social cues, cultural thought, and even inflection will be normalized to mainland American standards.
Before attempting to reach any more "conclusions" about "locals" in Hawaiʻi, you might want to do some more research. The following works should prove helpful:
Unfortunately you may want to improve on your reading comprehension skills...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737
it is common knowledge that Caucasians are generallymore outspoken and arrogant than most Asians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot N Annie
Categorizing all Caucasians as "outspoken and arrogant" says more about you than it does the group you are trying to denigrate, and it isn't very flattering...
You see how you skipped over a few words? Just in case you didn't, the following should help -
(a) I never said haoles are victims. Not sure where you got that. (b) what pj said is pretty clear - white folks are "outspoken and arrogant" (c) this has nothing to do with being PC - it's about painting all white people (which includes most of Europe with a wide variety of cultural norms) with the same brush.
btw, we were in Europe a couple of years ago and the rudest tourist we encountered were always the Asians. For example, I was trying to help my wife, who has some mobility issues, get around the Louvre and we were run over by a couple dozen middle age Asians.
But have a nice day!
Mahalo
p.s. - I'm done with this conversation.
Let's just get to the facts ok, we are talking Hawaii ok. Soneone just sent me a private message that said that's bs HBH. First I'm not HBH. Let history determine what is BS. First : The overthrow of the monarchy was instigated by rich haole plantation owners who were concerned only about there interests of profits, not everybodies. I'm not going to go into detail because this spacific issue is not to be discussed on here but if you follow the history of what happens you will see a lot of big egos and self importantance. Second: During the plantation years rich haole plantation owners owned there foreign workers and paid very little. Haoles only held jobs of overseers. Three: During WW2 Japanese Americans in the thousands were rounded up in Hawaii and placed in prison camps by haole authorities for fear of them posibbly being traitors etc. Most of the Japanese Americans had to forfeit there homes, properties and business. There is no documentted facts that any Japanese American s were found to be traitors of America and most never got any of there property back. Four: The Massie Trails where somea haoles accused some local boys of raping a white woman. It was later found that the local boys were innocent by trial and some oft he haole community took law into there own hands and murdered some of the local boys. In the murder trials of the Caucasians they were found not guilty of murder despite the overwhelming evidence against. They were found guilty of a lesser charge and was granted leanacy. The problem with the case wa this wasn't just a few transplants or haoles that were involved but the whole US Navy and the Caucasian community that poured support for the murderers. This is just a few examples of arrogance, self importantance, racism. Classism. This is just a few historical incidents and not everyone. Now I'm willing to change my opinion and stance if anyone can prove to me that locals in Hawaii and native Hawaiians did the same things to transplants or haoles?in Hawaii history?
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