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Thought I would resurrect this old thread, I remember reading it when I started thinking about moving a couple years ago. For anyone that is interested here is my take.
I left Oahu 8 months ago after 7 years, dont regret it, dont miss it except for winter weather and proximity to beaches... I thought Hawaii (Oahu at least) was overrated as a place to settle down and I probably wouldnt ever consider going back except that my wife's family is there.
Reasons it was a good move:
cleaner
don't have to deal with "local" attitude anymore
allowed to actually express my opinion on things without being told to go back to where I came from
haven't had my house/car broken into yet
5 mile commute to work doesn't take 45 minutes anymore and cost me $10 a day to park
I can't hear my neighbors fight, brush their teeth, or use the bathroom while I am trying to sleep
nobody cares where we are from out here
better pay
cheaper rent
central air
tremendous travel opportunites
seasons (not hot all the time)
close to family and friends (never made friends in Hawaii that were as good as my childhood friends)
more of the foods that I like to eat
no cockroaches or ants in my kitchen
Not so say I dislike the place, I made really good friends and met my wife there, I just don't regret moving on AT ALL. It was fun, the beaches are first class and there were some nice people overall (not any nicer than home, but good folks). But give me a break, $600,000 for a roach infested single wall shack with no A/C if you want to live in town... or you can "only" pay $450,000 for the same thing in Ewa beach and then sit in traffic for 3 hours a day (take your pick). It is worth it to goof off for a few years in your 20's but I wouln't want to raise a family there. Just my 2cents
Hey UHGrad,
I actually found this post pretty helpful for me, since I'm thinking about trying to live on the mainland for 1-2 years. Lately, I've been thinking about the advantages and disadvantages of living in Hawaii.
I didn't think UHgrad's post was terribly negative. I thought it gave a good idea of what people "could" find here. I think the experiences that people have here greatly depend on their age and economic situation.
If you are older (40+) and have some bucks, your experiences will be greatly different than someone starting out. Your money and age will insulate you from many of the "Hawaii" realities.
I have to agree that if I had young children, I would NOT move here. The private schools are great, but most cannot afford the 10-15K tuition per child, per year. Other than NY, this is the only state I've ever heard that charges public school kids to ride the school bus. Insane! And yet, even with one of the highest per student spending, their test scores are some of the lowest in the nation. Why?
Regarding jobs...seems like if you have a very specialized skill set, you're good to go...if you are a run of the mill worker, you will run into the "hire local" mentality.
Interesting you would ask that, and I did catch what you are hinting at with your sarcastic question. I started browsing this forum (not the Hawaii section) before I moved away from Hawaii looking at places to relocate to. I popped in once on the Hawaii section and noticed all of the folks posting on here about their plans to pick up and move to the islands (which is exactly what I did) and thought I could give some helpful advice and first hand experience.
I don't think the forum is limited to people who live in HI and UHgrad lived in HI and his insight is helpful to those considering moving to the mainland and the differences they may encounter. C-D can provide so much helpful information and it depends on people like UHgrad who have had experience, positive or negative.
Many friends moved back to the mainland because their children stayed on after attending college. They have found it more affordable, more opportunities for jobs and travel. HI is a beautiful place to live, but it is not for everyone. Many people vacation in the islands but look through rose colored glasses and the reality of living there is not obvious. A comparison with the mainland is a good forum topic.
So it appears that it is mostly the economic reason for moving out of Hawaii?
For many, economic reasons are the dominant factor. Theft is another big factor (it was for me, my house was broken into 3 times in just a few years). Opportunity is another factor. But to be honest, the biggest thing that bothered me and a lot of my transplant friends was the attitude of a lot of people.
I can only speak for Honolulu here, and many on this forum seem to be on outer islands so it may be different... But If you are caucasian, and you move to the islands, in a lot of ways you need to be ready to be second class citizen. Now that is not to say you will get beat up, yelled at, or even eyed out. But you will get that "you arent from around here are you?" feeling a lot when you go places and if you are an opinionated person, especially on politics, be ready to bite your tongue a lot. Your opinion will not be welcome, and may often be met with hostility because you are not "local" and you wouldn't understand. Now a lot of people want to feel like they get it and they fit in, so they are OK with that... but as you can see from my posts, I do have opinions on things and I like to express them.
EVERYTHING is about being "local". What HS did you go to, what part of the island are you from, do you know this guy or that guy. Mainland is some abstact place somewhere else that is lumped together as "not here, all the same, and not as nice as here". If you vacation anywhere but Vegas or Japan people will look at you like "why would you want to go there?" You will often hear haole transplant people argue with each other and say "well I have been here xxx years" in order to try and establish credibility and one up each other. It is like being in middle school agian.
They have to establish "local ties" to a story rather than just give the news as is. If the reporters go anywhere on assignment they will find someone in the area that lived in Hawaii at some point and then ask them what they miss about the islands while on camera. I have seen it 100 times. It is like some psychological complex requires them to get affirmation that anyone who left still misses the place.
Moby PCS has commercials talking about those shady "mainland" companies and how moby are the "local" guys that know how to treat you.
Hawaiian airlines has commercials that say "thats our Hawaii" after they give examples of how great the islands are compared to other places in the mainland.
The sports on the news wll tell you that shane victorino caught 2 fly balls and struck out before they tell you who won the NBA champtionship.
Many residents, who have never been anywhere on the mainland, will tell you how the people in Hawaii are nicer than people on the mainland. That would infuriate me to no end.
Maybe this is just what it feels like to be a minority, but I didn't care for it and there definitely isn't anyone around here going out of their way to make my wife feel out of place as an outsider. I know there are a lot of historical, socio-economic, and cultural reasons that the islands are like that... but I don't care why it is that way, I just don't want to deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpmp
HI cost of living certain is a drawback, but I think that for retirees with stable income, who want mild and steady climate, then HI is the place.
Yeah, it can be great if you have friends and a good social circle. The temperature varies less than 20 degrees each day (morning and night) and the highs are somewhere between 75 and 90 year round. Save for maybe San Diego, you aren't going to get a more stable warm climate in the country. And the beaches blow the west coast out of the water. Imagine the florida keys with beautiful green mountians in the background and a rainbow every afternoon.
Dear UHgrad, in answer to your post... "
I just want folks to get both sides of the story. I hope that everyone who goes has a good experience, I definitely did, but I also knew a lot of people that got "stuck" working dead end jobs and wasting their life away so I want to make sure people have an exit plan and understand what they are getting into by moving to the middle of the ocean to a place with a completely different culture and high cost of living."
Please don't think for a second that moving to anywhere in the states/mainland is going to guarantee your automatic success either! Yeah, the cost of living in HI is high,.i.e. food/furniture, airfare costs off the rock, but, you also got towns where the cost of living is dramatically higher, yet the average wage for a job, even if you are a college grad, with YRS of experience is often Min. Wage!
That's awful.. but that's very true in many town/cities in the SE.
I know people too who graduated from a highly credited college in FL and they were offered like $6hr when they graduated!
And there's no union in the south either, so many times you are stuck in some dead-end job where people who've lived there all their lives, won't accept you, won't even befriend you, even if you've lived there for decades, b/c they're angry they lost the civil war! Not all folks from the south are that way, but there's a good percentage that are.
You don't want to live in a trailer either, b/c there are alot of tornados down south, that will turn over a trailer in an instant and kill ya!
I don't know, but to me, it would definitely be an advantage, not a disadvantage living in HI, than some highly touted town in the south, or on the mainland, that had a abnormally high cost of living, but yet, at the same time, only wanted to pay most folks MIN Wage!
Mininum wage is NOT a living wage.. you cannot survive on that.
At least with Hawaii, you could grown any fruit/plant/vegetable year-round, plus go to the ocean and get your own fish!
Lots of spots in Hawaii too, cuz of the constant ocean breezes, you don't even really need a/c for!
So, you're saving a lot on power bills for start!
The people are so nice there too, for the most part, so much more accepting of others, and I do NOT see that in many spots on the mainland, sadly!
It's weird, cuz you can be the same exact race as someone else, but they won't even speak to you, if you live in their neighborhood, b/c you are not from their generally area, or was born in the same state as them! It's dismal, to be quite truthful.
whereas, in Hawaii, you could have a Philipino neighbor or a Hawaiian neighbor or a Chinese one, and they'd want to be friends right away, and would be a GOOD friend to ya, too!
I don't see that much on the mainland anymore, sad to say. They do say there are some parts in Georgia though, where the locals are so nice, they don't know a stranger!
Don't know what town that is, but I'd like to.. I have met a lot of really nice folks from Georgia, super polite, really sweet and the same with eastern TN!
You find that more in the south, than you do up north, for there's a lot more immigrants who came to live up north from many many countries, and the wages are higher, though so are the taxes too, often.
I'd like to live out on the west coast, near OR myself, what is that like? I think west coast people are much more open-minded and friendly at first. Not to say all east coast people are not friendly, but there's more acceptance of other's difference out west than back east.
Does anyone else also find that?
UHGrad, sounds like you need to move to the outer islands my friend! the haoles are not half as discriminated against, as they are on Oahu!
Trust me.... it's different there, much more country like, and people, well, the outer islands do not have the trafic headaches oahu does!
Beautiful dramatic countryside too, not that Oahu does not have its share of gorgeous spots. Oahu IS a beautiful island, but then so is Maui, (maui no ka oi) (sp?), so is Kauai and so is the BI... don't know much about Lanai or Molokai....
Have you checked out jobs on the outer islands? If you are a surfer, biker, hiker, etc, you'd probably love the big island or maui.....
I didn't care for Oahu that much either, compared to the outer islands, in terms of people, crime rates, laid-backness, (none of my friends on Maui or BI ever told me their place was broken into, though may be tru, now the economy is in the tanker).
But Honolulu is a cool city as far as cities go! I'm not a city girl though.. so though they got great nightlife, concerts, etc.... all that busyness is not really my cup of tea.. though I think it's one of the best cities to live in America myself... but that's just my 2 cents
I tend to agree with Jolie here, but I really think HI had better job opporunites myself than many mainland places
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joliefille
I didn't think UHgrad's post was terribly negative. I thought it gave a good idea of what people "could" find here. I think the experiences that people have here greatly depend on their age and economic situation.
If you are older (40+) and have some bucks, your experiences will be greatly different than someone starting out. Your money and age will insulate you from many of the "Hawaii" realities.
I have to agree that if I had young children, I would NOT move here. The private schools are great, but most cannot afford the 10-15K tuition per child, per year. Other than NY, this is the only state I've ever heard that charges public school kids to ride the school bus. Insane! And yet, even with one of the highest per student spending, their test scores are some of the lowest in the nation. Why?
Regarding jobs...seems like if you have a very specialized skill set, you're good to go...if you are a run of the mill worker, you will run into the "hire local" mentality.
I never had a problem getting jobs in HI myself! I don't think my training was that "specialized" either, just was trained in a good field, that's all.
Where we live now, we couldn't even get a job in McDonald's! If you are a craftsperson or a farmer and want to sell things at even a tailgate market in the spring/summer/fall, you have to file AN APPLICATION for that, and many times they won't accept you as a vendor, even if your stuff is nicer than what the present vendors are selling!
The job market is pathetic in our area! Yet, we are "touted" as such a great place to move to, to live. IMHO, it's great place to come and die, cuz pretty soon, month after month of either NO job, or some low paying job, you'll starve of hunger!
Don't move to the south and expect to do well, unless you got a job all lined up!
This place is sheer misery, when it comes to economic opportunities! I have heard of so many people moving to our area, barely being able to afford the exorbinant rent, and then being forced to work 3-4 jobs, all of which pay min wage, with NO health benefits whatsoever.
Another think I don't like about the mainland, is the crime rate is LOT higher! I'm not talking about break-ins either.
I'm talking about murders, rapes, assaults, traffic fatalities, weather related accidents!
We got bears running in people's backyard, in the early morning hours or at dusk, we got 10 pt antlered bucks standing in folks back & front yard, in the middle of the day, come mating season (very dangerous), deer year round, which nearly run into your car, when you're driving down the road, or pose the threat of Lyme Diease, poisonous snakes, poison ivy, you name it! The mainland is a LOT more dangerous place to live than Hawaii ever was!
That's what is so special about Hawaii! It's not a utopia, it's just a nice, much safer place to live. I remember well, sleeping so soundly when I stayed there.. but here, you're in constant state of worry, b/c so many times the police don't even do anything about the crime!
We have so many unsolved murders in our region, it's astounding! Plus, too, when you got no one to watch your back, b/c your neighbors won't even speak to you in the first place, that gets dangerous!
We had our power go out for over a day, and the people next door, didn't lose theirs, and & it was in the dead of winter too, right after a major snowstorm!
You'd think they would want to come over and check on us and see if we were safe?
No way... they didn't even bother to SPEAK to us, when we walked to get our mail!
I don't "get" or understand the people's mentality here on the mainland, I really do not!
While haoles do get discriminated against on Oahu, there's a lot of hostility and hatefulness toward "fellow" haoles here on the mainland, simply cuz you're not in their little circle of friends!
It's depressing honestly!
I'd give my eye teeth to be living in HI again!
Last edited by RoyalBeagle; 05-31-2010 at 09:43 AM..
Dear UHgrad, in answer to your post... "
I just want folks to get both sides of the story. I hope that everyone who goes has a good experience, I definitely did, but I also knew a lot of people that got "stuck" working dead end jobs and wasting their life away so I want to make sure people have an exit plan and understand what they are getting into by moving to the middle of the ocean to a place with a completely different culture and high cost of living."
Please don't think for a second that moving to anywhere in the states/mainland is going to guarantee your automatic success either! Yeah, the cost of living in HI is high,.i.e. food/furniture, airfare costs off the rock, but, you also got towns where the cost of living is dramatically higher, yet the average wage for a job, even if you are a college grad, with YRS of experience is often Min. Wage!
That's awful.. but that's very true in many town/cities in the SE.
I know people too who graduated from a highly credited college in FL and they were offered like $6hr when they graduated!
And there's no union in the south either, so many times you are stuck in some dead-end job where people who've lived there all their lives, won't accept you, won't even befriend you, even if you've lived there for decades, b/c they're angry they lost the civil war! Not all folks from the south are that way, but there's a good percentage that are.
You don't want to live in a trailer either, b/c there are alot of tornados down south, that will turn over a trailer in an instant and kill ya!
I don't know, but to me, it would definitely be an advantage, not a disadvantage living in HI, than some highly touted town in the south, or on the mainland, that had a abnormally high cost of living, but yet, at the same time, only wanted to pay most folks MIN Wage!
Mininum wage is NOT a living wage.. you cannot survive on that.
At least with Hawaii, you could grown any fruit/plant/vegetable year-round, plus go to the ocean and get your own fish!
Lots of spots in Hawaii too, cuz of the constant ocean breezes, you don't even really need a/c for!
So, you're saving a lot on power bills for start!
The people are so nice there too, for the most part, so much more accepting of others, and I do NOT see that in many spots on the mainland, sadly!
It's weird, cuz you can be the same exact race as someone else, but they won't even speak to you, if you live in their neighborhood, b/c you are not from their generally area, or was born in the same state as them! It's dismal, to be quite truthful.
whereas, in Hawaii, you could have a Philipino neighbor or a Hawaiian neighbor or a Chinese one, and they'd want to be friends right away, and would be a GOOD friend to ya, too!
I don't see that much on the mainland anymore, sad to say. They do say there are some parts in Georgia though, where the locals are so nice, they don't know a stranger!
Don't know what town that is, but I'd like to.. I have met a lot of really nice folks from Georgia, super polite, really sweet and the same with eastern TN!
You find that more in the south, than you do up north, for there's a lot more immigrants who came to live up north from many many countries, and the wages are higher, though so are the taxes too, often.
I'd like to live out on the west coast, near OR myself, what is that like? I think west coast people are much more open-minded and friendly at first. Not to say all east coast people are not friendly, but there's more acceptance of other's difference out west than back east.
Does anyone else also find that?
No doubt, experiences vary, the "mainland" is a big place with lots of options... you gotta choose wisely no matter where you go.
I moved, I made friends here immediately, I am making twice as much money and my rent is half what I was paying in Honolulu. I have a filipino neighbor and a russian neighbor (from russia) where I live now. There is plenty of diversity in most major metropolitan areas these days. Im not here to generalize about people in various areas of the country, there are a-holes and nice folks most anywhere... I am just stating facts about my experience in Hawaii and why I moved to help out people who may be in that boat.
Another think I don't like about the mainland, is the crime rate is LOT higher! !
Where is the mainland? Are you comparing the entire continental united states to a small chain of islands in the middle of the ocean? Actually, the CITY I live in has a LOWER crime rate than Honolulu. This is what I am talking about, you cannot compare 300,000,000 people and 3,000,000 square miles (the "mainland") to 1,000,000 people and 6,500 square miles (Hawaii). I give up, I am wasting my time on here. You guys win. The mainland sucks, all of it, Hawaii is awesome in every way.
The job market is pathetic in our area! Yet, we are "touted" as such a great place to move to, to live. IMHO, it's great place to come and die cuz pretty soon, month after month of either NO job, or some low paying job, you'll starve of hunger!
Don't move to the south and expect to do well, unless you got a job all lined up!
Sorry you're having such difficulties. Every place has positives and negatives. We spend a couple of months in HI every year and enjoy the peace, beauty and people of the islands. We also live upstate NY and the people are friendly, crime is low and right now jobs are hard to come by due to the economy. We also travel south for a month or so and I know I could never live there due to many reasons you listed.
Everyone has to find their place and this forum provides a lot of information that hopefully people will read and research areas they are interested in moving.
Good luck to you and I hope things improve.
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UHGrad
