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It ain't broke don't fix it and this ain't the mainland. We don't care how they do it over there.
If I want to find my council person, I know exactly where and how and she knows me, so how more connected do we need to be to our local government? If I want the County to know something, I can go talk to them. Having a 'city' layer of government would be one more layer to go through to get the County's attention.
If you don't think things are "broke", well .......!!!
Empty platitudes don't say much at all, really.The debate equivalent of sawdust in bread.
Good luck on getting the county's attention. You must be blind in that regards. A city, speaking as a unified voice, could, You, by yourself, will get the same treatment you're getting now, i.e. screwed.
Sine a lot of Hawai'i government is inept or corrupt (and very often both) I am not in favor of throwing gas on that fire by adding another layer.
Then you will forever suffer at the hands of the inept or corruptt, (or both, combined). Your lone voice is lost in the political flatulence.
A city, honestly and well run, would have a booming voice, difficult to ignore.
I do concur, however, honestly (run) and well run are two difficult hurdles for the mindset that dominants the state. However, if competent government, even if only a city, could gain a toe-hold, perhaps things would start to improve.
Also, if you think that the power that be that have denied you this fundamental building block (Incorporated cities) have done it for the good of the residents (as opposed to solidifying their own power over you), you are naive.
"Representation that is local, made up of city residents and more in-tune and concerned with the people and their needs. Also, an official collective of people, i.e. "the City" more able to get their due from the county which is more than capable of ignoring individuals on their own, but may be bent to the collective voices as a city."
Examples
Hilo
Pahoa and Puna
KK
Instead of repeating something that you read in a book, why not answer the question. Give me some real life examples of your experiences from living here in Hawaii as to why you think that people are not getting representation. Give me some real life examples of how people who live in unincorporated areas don't get a voice.
When I asked for examples, you listed some places you found on a map. Please explain how a "city of Puna" would work and what benefits people who live there could get that they aren't getting now as a district.
It would be a terrible idea for Ka'u (or any of the population areas within Ka'u) to be a city rather than a district under County government. Currently, everyone on the island pays taxes to the County government and this includes a lot of wealthy areas in North and South Kohala. Ka'u is a very poor district, and if we had to rely merely on taxes collected here our services (now provided by the County) would disappear.
BTW, I live in an unincorporated area in Colorado in the summer. We have no problems dealing with a very responsive County government and our County Commissioners are quite reachable. I just don't understand why you think this is such a problem.
Instead of repeating something that you read in a book, why not answer the question. Give me some real life examples of your experiences from living here in Hawaii as to why you think that people are not getting representation. Give me some real life examples of how people who live in unincorporated areas don't get a voice.
When I asked for examples, you listed some places you found on a map. Please explain how a "city of Puna" would work and what benefits people who live there could get that they aren't getting now as a district.
It would be a terrible idea for Ka'u (or any of the population areas within Ka'u) to be a city rather than a district under County government. Currently, everyone on the island pays taxes to the County government and this includes a lot of wealthy areas in North and South Kohala. Ka'u is a very poor district, and if we had to rely merely on taxes collected here our services (now provided by the County) would disappear.
BTW, I live in an unincorporated area in Colorado in the summer. We have no problems dealing with a very responsive County government and our County Commissioners are quite reachable. I just don't understand why you think this is such a problem.
You already have your answer, I didn't read it in a book, and I didn't find places on a map. I first lived in Hawaii in 1979 and have been in all of those places and many more.
The advantages of people in a geographic area creating an incorporated city are well known to all. That is why the institution of an incorporated city was created.
It seems to work for the city of Honolulu, so why not at least consider the benefits in other areas.
BTW, I lived in Colorado - Denver, to be precise - from 1957 to 1960. It may surprise you to know that Colorado has incorporated cities, lots of them.
BTW, I lived in Colorado - Denver, to be precise - from 1957 to 1960. It may surprise you to know that Colorado has incorporated cities, lots of them.
Of course it does. It also has a whole lot of unincorporated areas. Once again, you miss the entire point.
You never even addressed the issue of how a very poor area like Ka`u (you remember where that is, don't you?) could benefit by the loss of County support.
Of course it does. It also has a whole lot of unincorporated areas. Once again, you miss the entire point.
You never even addressed the issue of how a very poor area like Ka`u (you remember where that is, don't you?) could benefit by the loss of County support.
I am not going into the weeds with you on a micro-justification, area by area. That is not the point of the thread.
My point is that it may be advantageous in certain places to have incorporated cities, and I feel that the people of Hawaii should have that option, which, apparently, don't have now. Consider policing, for one thing, in Puna.
I never proposed anything about Kau specifically. That was your doing.
I didn't "miss" your point, I ignored it as being a silly diversion from my overall point. In other words, I wasn't going into the weeds with you on a case-by-case basis, specially-selected (by you) as non-workable, soas to discredit the overall suggestion posed in the OP.
No, it wasn't a "trap". It was an effort to try to get you to be realistic and to provide a real-life example (which once again you can't) of how a city government would be better than a county government.
So, if the rules are that I have to only comment on what you suggest, then we will stick with your listing of Hilo, Puna, and Kailua-Kona. Please explain what a city of Puna would look like and how that would benefit the people who live there. You give an example of policing in Puna -- are you envisioning that all the various areas of the huge district of Puna would somehow come together as a city? And that the people who live there are going to be willing to add another layer of taxation? Do you know for a fact that Puna suffers from lack of policing because they "don't have representation in the government"?
I know quite well how government works. I've lived in both incorporated and unincorporated areas. I've had representation in both areas, so I don't see the advantages.
That, obviously, is a factor, but I suspect there would be money from the State and/or county. People would have to decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether the advantages outweigh the costs, or not. In some cases, the county might do a great job. However, I don't think that would apply on the BI.
It is an idea to discuss or at least consider. There are well-known advantages and disadvantages, but each locale should be able to decide. Right now, they can't decide since it doesn't seem to be an option, and I am saying that it should at least be an option.
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It also has a whole lot of unincorporated areas. Once again, you miss the entire point.
