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Your expecting other people to solve a problem that only YOU have.
Some very valid points have been brought up on the "against" side, and I have seen none on the "pro" side.
The rest of the world sees the pro side. Sorry you guys are blind to it.
BTW' I saw no point brought up that responded to my proposal to ALLOW cities where appropriate. As is obvious, it takes a special kind of stupid to be against the granting of a foundational civic right to oneself
The rest of the world sees the pro side. Sorry you guys are blind.
BTW' I saw no point brought up that responded to my proposal to ALLOW cities where appropriate. As is obvious, it takes a special kind of stupid to be against the granting of a foundational civic right to oneself
I do not think insulting everyone who does not agree with you is conducive to a conversation.
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So, to get back to the original point of the OP (if the OP would actually discuss things instead of calling everyone who doesn't agree with the OP immediately a poopyhead) Throwing fire on a firefight doesn't accomplish anything except perhaps to create charred ashes which - unless you're making soap or adding them to your garden (which doesn't work with virtual ashes) does no good. I doubt it even makes you feel better, it doesn't get you any respect.
So, back to the hopefully actual discussion: "Why is organizing a small group of people in Hawaii into an incorporated city a good thing?"
One presumes so that the people of the incorporated town will have more control over their town. This also presumes that the people in control of the incorporated town will have the good of the town in mind and not some way for themselves to benefit at the expense of everyone else. How is an incorporated town not a haven for developers and big money people?
Are the officers of the corporation, I suppose in an incorporated town, they'd be called a mayor, fire chief, etc., paid by the members of the corporation? How does this not cost the inhabitants of the incorporated area more money?
I know some of my mainland relatives live right next to but not in an incorporated town due to tax reasons. The houses on the next street over are in the incorporated town and their taxes are four times higher. I don't see that they get any different services than the houses on the next street, although my relatives don't have school age children.
Hawaii is the only state in the nation which has a state level school system, so an incorporating a town isn't going to get better schools for the people in the town. How do the people in the incorporated town get library books from the state library system? How do they pay for the roads? The fire station? The police force?
Honolulu is not an incorporated town. There are none in Hawaii and considering how much screwing up a corporation could do to land zoning, I'm really glad we don't have incorporated cities. There's enough developers around here who are developing all the good spots into something local folks can't afford to buy. If they were able to incorporate into a city they'd be able to grab more big chunks of land and change the zoning to make themselves more money.
Incorporated cities are supposed to provide their own fire and police and roads and schools. Which is paid for from the people living in the incorporated places. Aren't the taxes in Hawaii high enough already? The people living here are already working two jobs to scrape by, adding an additional expense isn't going to help anyone. They already have all these services so why burden everyone with a double expense?
Do the people in an incorporated city then not have to then pay State taxes? Unless they don't have to pay the State taxes, then the people in the incorporated city will be paying twice to provide what everyone else is already getting.
How many islands have incorporated cities on them? Manhatten, I suppose? But by incorporating Honolulu, what does that do to the rest of the non-incorporated areas? If Honolulu is no longer paying for the schools, fire, police and roads everywhere else (if they are, then they have to pay double) then there's no money for all the rural areas in the state.
Oahu has 1,500 people per square mile. Hawaii Island has 45 people per square mile. Which is why a lot of the services in Hawaii are on a state level. Hawaii Island has a lot less services than Oahu, but it's perfectly okay and we're not asking for more roads, more police or more fire stations. That, however, is just for our island.
If Honolulu were to incorporate, how would that affect the rest of the island? If Waikiki were to incorporate, how would they find enough local people who live there to run the city?
Seems to me, incorporating would really change a lot of things and I don't see how it would change things in enough of a positive way to make the burden of paying for it worthwhile to the folks who would have to pay.
If Waikiki were to incorporate, how would they find enough local people who live there to run the city?
I think Hawaii taxes are obscenely low for a remote island in the Pacific Ocean - especially property taxes. Compared to California and many East Coast states, Hawaii taxes are just plain low. Raising taxes, in my opinion, would dissuade more people from moving to Hawaii (or at least hopefully discourage lower income earners) and hopefully encourage more of the lower earners to move. I'd also hit the retirees much harder on taxes. People forget, Hawaii as a State enjoys some of the highest per capita millionaire households in the United States excluding retirement funds and value of the house (assets of $1M or more you can invest). There are 36,903 households in Hawaii that meet that threshold - or 7.57% of all resident households, a staggering number, 4th in the nation on a per capita basis.
Also, Waikiki is a neighborhood in Honolulu.
Regardless, making cities in Hawaii in 2019 is kind of silly - that is the kind of thing you'd do in 1919.
"...(or at least hopefully discourage lower income earners) and hopefully encourage more of the lower earners to move."
How does the machine of "tourism" continue to churn, without the low income earners? I'm perfectly fine with less tourism - regardless, wages can possibly go up with qualified workers
How does your landscaping get done? Based on what I pay for landscaping, I have no doubt my landscaper gets by perfectly fine
How does your food that you ordered get to your table? Wages rise with qualified people - but, there are a bunch of really awful places out there, they can fold. I'm definitely fine with less Zippy's and Burger King
Who watches the children of the absentee parents that are off earning their millions? Day care
We pay our landscaper $20 an hour. But, he doesn't work an eight hour day by any means. He's one of many people in the area who are trying to support themselves with odd jobs. As a self-employed person, he has to pay his own taxes, health insurance, etc. He is not getting rich!
Those don't come off as intelligent and substantive answers, to me. They come off as deflective and dismissive.
I also guess I should of clarified what your criteria is to categorize someone as a "low income earner". What is it?
As a side question, do you tend to immediately equate a "low income earner" as a citizen of low quality?
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