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Old 02-09-2023, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,518 posts, read 34,827,838 times
Reputation: 73739

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlBeachIguana View Post
If you lived in Florida, that existed since the summer/early fall of 2020.
Yeah, you can tell that by just looking at it's death per capita in 15th place. You managed to beat NY, who was one of the hardest hit in the beginning.
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Old 02-09-2023, 09:49 AM
 
574 posts, read 267,267 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Yeah, you can tell that by just looking at it's death per capita in 15th place. You managed to beat NY, who was one of the hardest hit in the beginning.
You need to adjust Florida's death rate by age.

Once you do that Florida is in #31 place. New York in #17. California is in #38 but the difference in age-adjusted death rate is small (299 vs 275).

https://www.bioinformaticscro.com/bl...-covid-deaths/

In other words, those guidelines made a lick of difference
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Old 02-09-2023, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,110 posts, read 41,246,039 times
Reputation: 45135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Follow the Science...

One of the largest and most comprehensive studies on the effectiveness of masks found they do almost nothing to reduce the spread of respiratory viruses.

Cochrane Database of Systematic Review........

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...6207.pub6/full
From the link:

"Authors' conclusions
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions."
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Old 02-09-2023, 11:39 AM
 
Location: DFW
40,952 posts, read 49,176,191 times
Reputation: 55003
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
From the link:

"Authors' conclusions
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions."
Yet they draw common sense general conclusions most people can follow.
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Old 02-09-2023, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,110 posts, read 41,246,039 times
Reputation: 45135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Yet they draw common sense general conclusions most people can follow.
Garbage in, garbage out.
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Old 02-09-2023, 11:48 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,147 posts, read 861,615 times
Reputation: 3503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Yet they draw common sense general conclusions most people can follow.
There's a distinction between government mandating masks and people actually adhering to wearing masks.

How can somebody come to conclusions about the efficacy of the use of masks when mandates were not adhered to? That's common sense isn't it? That goes against scientific principles if one can not control experiments.
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Old 02-09-2023, 12:31 PM
 
574 posts, read 267,267 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Garbage in, garbage out.
The burden of proof is always on people advocating the intervention. Please cite for me at least 2 RCTs or CRTs showing mask effectiveness, thanks in advance.
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Old 02-09-2023, 12:34 PM
 
574 posts, read 267,267 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy View Post
There's a distinction between government mandating masks and people actually adhering to wearing masks.

How can somebody come to conclusions about the efficacy of the use of masks when mandates were not adhered to? That's common sense isn't it? That goes against scientific principles if one can not control experiments.
Some of those studies Rakin cited were done in the hospital setting with HCW where mask wearing was adhered to. Presumably properly.

Even if adherence is not perfect, if you have more (much more) adherence in the intervention arm vs control arm and still no effect, you can draw a conclusion it was a bad intervention.

Requiring perfect and absolute compliance is not feasible.

Of course, if you think masks work, you're free to wear them. The mandates need to be gone everywhere and for all time until the mask crowd can do 2 CRTs or RCTs on masks that show effectiveness.
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Old 02-09-2023, 01:18 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,656 posts, read 28,670,889 times
Reputation: 50525
NOTE WELL: Any more name calling like "paranoid" or ridicule of people who do not agree with you will earn you an infraction. This thread is for information and helpful discussion, not for arguments. Arguments go into Politics and other CONTROVERSIES. (In other words, mind your manners or you're outa here!) You can disagree but if you do, please be sure to do so politely.
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Old 02-09-2023, 01:24 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,147 posts, read 861,615 times
Reputation: 3503
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlBeachIguana View Post
Some of those studies Rakin cited were done in the hospital setting with HCW where mask wearing was adhered to. Presumably properly.

Even if adherence is not perfect, if you have more (much more) adherence in the intervention arm vs control arm and still no effect, you can draw a conclusion it was a bad intervention.

Requiring perfect and absolute compliance is not feasible.

Of course, if you think masks work, you're free to wear them. The mandates need to be gone everywhere and for all time until the mask crowd can do 2 CRTs or RCTs on masks that show effectiveness.
A person goes to work and wears a mask and then goes home and does not wear a mask. The study does not control exposures outside of work.

We are not talking about controlled studies. Controlled in the sense of controlling variables.
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