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Old 05-05-2017, 08:43 AM
 
19,037 posts, read 27,614,590 times
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Yeah, every esteemed poster here lived there for years and knows everything about the USSR. Especially that "everyone will go lazy and drink vodka". Bravo..... Coach potatoes that built their historical knowledge based on History Channel and Youtube.

To one who wants to go back and kill. You'll have to go back and kill some very interesting historical personae. Like Christ, for example. As it is a known fact that Marxism and Engels' communism (not Marx's) is a Judeo/Christian philosophy. So who you gonna kill - all the way down to Abraham? Why do you think communist settlements are still present in Israel? Ever heard of kibbutz? That they are dying and limping is not the idea fault. Nothing wrong with everyone working for everyone's benefit and being fairly supported by community in response. But the human nature will kill any idea like this.
Communism did not kill itself. people killed it.

From each according to his abilities
To each according to his work.

What's wrong with that? Except that those who read Animal Farm know the wisdom. All animals are equal. Except that some animals are more equal than the others.

THAT is what will kill ANY bright idea.
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:12 AM
 
18,131 posts, read 25,296,596 times
Reputation: 16845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave View Post
Americanism spread on its own, there need not be a sanctioned propaganda wing anywhere in the USA (not saying there isn't, but if/when and where it is, it's not necessary).
Operation Hollywood: How the Pentagon shapes and censors the movies

When the US entered World War I, Washington established the Committee of Public Information, which formulated guidelines for all media to promote domestic support for the war. The small but growing movie industry readily offered its support, with the Motion Picture News proclaiming in a 1917 editorial, “[E]very individual at work in this industry” has promised to provide “slides, film leaders and trailers, posters ... to spread that propaganda so necessary to the immediate mobilisation of the country’s great resources.”
While this support diminished when the war ended, directors such as D.W. Griffiths, King Vidor and others still sought, and were provided with, assistance from the US army on several films during the 1920s and 30s.
With America’s entry into World War II in 1941, this collaboration expanded to an unprecedented level. Hollywood studios, working in association with the Pentagon, rapidly churned out scores of war dramas and documentaries to boost the American war effort. Military officials provided equipment, personnel and advice on numerous American movies. Director Frank Capra’s Why We Fight (1943-44), six powerful documentaries, are perhaps the best known of these films.
After the war, the Pentagon formally established its “film approval” process and then, in 1948, set up a special movie liaison office, as part of the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs. With the onset of the Cold War, the US military demanded even greater control over the movies it “assisted”.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,080 posts, read 7,448,002 times
Reputation: 16351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debnor View Post
Can someone explain?

Well, I can't.


My son just did a paper on the Great Leap Forward that Mao unleashed on the peasants of China in 1958-1962. Anywhere from 35 million to 55 million people are said to have starved to death, been shot to death, or tortured to death during that time.


But who wants to watch a Hollywood blockbuster about the massacre of tens of millions of Chinese peasants, let alone make one?


Who wants to make a Hollywood movie about the Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933, engineered by Stalin and which killed 12 million people?


Pol Pot? No box office there.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,080 posts, read 7,448,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
From each according to his abilities
To each according to his work.

The correct translation is "...to each according to his needs." (Bedürfnissen)


The trouble is, everyone defines "needs" differently. I need an iPhone, but I am unable to work. So you, give me an iPhone because I need it.


Quote:
What's wrong with that? Except that those who read Animal Farm know the wisdom. All animals are equal. Except that some animals are more equal than the others.

THAT is what will kill ANY bright idea.

You can't kill Capitalism with that idea, because Capitalism is predicated on the idea that some animals are more equal than others.
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:45 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Well, I can't.


My son just did a paper on the Great Leap Forward that Mao unleashed on the peasants of China in 1958-1962. Anywhere from 35 million to 55 million people are said to have starved to death, been shot to death, or tortured to death during that time.
Did Chinese Communist had a plan for rapid industrialization of the country, BEFORE they started that said-above "Leap," while exterminating peasantry?
Did they HAVE what it takes to implement it - i.e. tech-savvy people from top to the bottom, Academy of Science recognized on international level - that kind of things?
Or they just simply looked at Russians and decided "if Russians can do it, so can we?"


Quote:
But who wants to watch a Hollywood blockbuster about the massacre of tens of millions of Chinese peasants, let alone make one?


Who wants to make a Hollywood movie about the Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933, engineered by Stalin and which killed 12 million people?
I don't know about the first one, but when it comes to "Ukrainian famine" - someone in Hollywood sure is huffing and puffing to make it, keeping in mind all the trouble that's stirring there (Americans of course being involved.)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Harvest_(2017_film)
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:50 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
The correct translation is "...to each according to his needs." (Bedürfnissen)
No, not exactly.

"From each according to his abilities
To each according to his work" - that's the definition of Socialism ( the way it was in the USSR.)

"From each according to his abilities,
To each according to his needs" - that's the definition of Communism, yes.


Quote:
The trouble is, everyone defines "needs" differently. I need an iPhone, but I am unable to work. So you, give me an iPhone because I need it.
Yes, "wants" and "needs" of course are a very questionable thing.
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:59 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10039
Quote:
Originally Posted by karstic View Post
That's why their planned economy floundered.
You can have 10 people to place a light bulb or assign technically strategic technical jobs based on your political background.
Etc.
Al comrade Lenin said before dying...."communism does not work".
Absolutely.
And to be quiet honest, this was the main reason behind the downfall of the USSR - too many incompetent people in decisive positions ( that it took 10 persons to place a light bulb was a much lesser problem.)
But look at today's capitalist Russia.
Because of all the "connections" and plain nepotism, you see the same picture - a lot of incompetent people end up in position of power yet again.
So the question then is - is it really the inseparable part of "Communism," or in fact a feature that simply characterizes the nation that hosts "Communism"?

Last edited by erasure; 05-05-2017 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:59 PM
 
2,631 posts, read 2,052,003 times
Reputation: 3134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Yeah, every esteemed poster here lived there for years and knows everything about the USSR. Especially that "everyone will go lazy and drink vodka". Bravo..... Coach potatoes that built their historical knowledge based on History Channel and Youtube.
You might not like to read it, but it's absolutely true.
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:06 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,561,271 times
Reputation: 10039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
You might not like to read it, but it's absolutely true.
Did you live there?
( Because if you DID, you'd know that it's not true.)
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:08 PM
 
2,631 posts, read 2,052,003 times
Reputation: 3134
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
...( that it took 10 persons to place a light bulb was a much lesser problem.)


So the question then is - is it really the inseparable part of "Communism," or in fact a feature that simply characterizes the nation that hosts "Communism"?
It was a huge problem. Of those 10 people, one might have had the skill set to be a doctor, another an engineer, two more might have been teachers, another a baker and another two might been accomplished tradesmen. Maybe three of them were only cut out to change light bulbs or take out the trash, but if they were efficient about it, more light bulbs would have gotten changed and more trash would have been taken out.

It was a terrible waste of resources and even worse, it stripped people of their dignity, their dreams, their achievements.
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