Why do we have a public elementary school named Woodrow Wilson Montessori? (Houston: live, racist)

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by timtemtym

fascinating thread! We are moving into a home close to that school soon. I didn't know that about Wilson. There is a Woodrow Wilson blvd. in the Hollywood hills in LA. I've heard no talk about renaming it.

Lol. Yes. I’m familiar with that road too. From what I remember, it isn’t a particularly well-traveled road like Mulholland, mainly used for those in that Hills neighborhood. I don’t see just what is so admirable about that man. Teddy Roosevelt was a much more genuine and likable POTUS from that era. Wilson’s name should not be associated with a learning place for kids nor any publicly funded place. Welcome Montrose neighbor.

[Vicman]

"Others to prosper" would be wealthier African-Americans, the talented tenth, who no longer had to live in the same neighborhoods, who no longer had to send their kids to the same schools, and no longer had to patronize the same businesses as as poor African-Americans. They could send their kids to white schools, go to white businesses, and live in white neighborhoods. White people largely chose not to send their kids to the black schools and largely chose not to live in black neighborhoods as they perceived both to be inferior - this became a self-fulfilling perception, sadly. This Houston Press article talks about what that did to Wheatley High School: https://www.houstonpress.com/news/wh...eatley-6570922

That scenario screwed over low income African-Americans, of course. But it's an inevitability of equality: segregation artificially sustained communities that partially collapsed when segregation ended. (the drug war, which Nixon started, did the rest )

The author of this article stated that in some ways low income African-American schools today are worse off than in segregation eras, but it's something that needed to happen for the other African Americans who want the best.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...on-now/359813/

In some ways, all-black schools today are worse than Druid High was back in the 1950s, when poor black students mixed with affluent and middle-class ones.

Our task now is to find ways to benefit poor African-Americans. The egg can't be put together, or as "Pennsatucky" said in Orange is the New Black, "Toast Can't Be Bread Again".

Originally Posted by hbcu

Hard to say for the best when it basically opened doors for others to prosper when folks just wanted equality. Look at all the public schools that got closed as a result also

We already have a Theodore Roosevelt Elementary School in Houston https://www.houstonisd.org/roosevelt It's in the Northside area.

I believe Wilson is respected for the post-WWI diplomacy.

I am aware many presidents have had both positives and negatives... LBJ did the Civil Rights Act and then worsened Vietnam. Even Nixon is seen to have made a good move by opening up the US to the PRC.

Originally Posted by Hopeful for Life

Lol. Yes. I’m familiar with that road too. From what I remember, it isn’t a particularly well-traveled road like Mulholland, mainly used for those in that Hills neighborhood. I don’t see just what is so admirable about that man. Teddy Roosevelt was a much more genuine and likable POTUS from that era. Wilson’s name should not be associated with a learning place for kids nor any publicly funded place. Welcome Montrose neighbor.

[atmcclel]

Woodrow Wilson is very different from Confederate generals in my mind and I'm African American. Confederate generals and icons did nothing for the United States; made no lasting legacy that improved Americans' lives back then or today. However, many Presidents have passed policies that have helped shaped our society today. Was Wilson perfect? No. I'd venture to say most Presidents we had prior to JFK were probably racists to some degree. But we can judge our leaders on today's standard; that's not fair.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by atmcclel

Woodrow Wilson is very different from Confederate generals in my mind and I'm African American. Confederate generals and icons did nothing for the United States; made no lasting legacy that improved Americans' lives back then or today. However, many Presidents have passed policies that have helped shaped our society today. Was Wilson perfect? No. I'd venture to say most Presidents we had prior to JFK were probably racists to some degree. But we can judge our leaders on today's standard; that's not fair.

The fact that we allow him to be imperfect, and still honor him, is because he's a white dude. If women or people of color have any flaw, any mark on their history, it's used to negate all of their accomplishments.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

The fact that we allow him to be imperfect, and still honor him, is because he's a white dude. If women or people of color have any flaw, any mark on their history, it's used to negate all of their accomplishments.

Now this is extended to minorities too:

MLK was quite imperfect too.. Racist propaganda tries to harp on his infidelities to his wife. Yet good dudes know that his infidelities don’t take away from his achievements.

And George Floyd.. he was far from perfect, and yet I am touched how most of the public accepts that and rightfully Acknowledges him as a beloved member of his family.

[groovamos]

Originally Posted by lhafer

What?? No one is saying ONLY black lives matter.

But not all lives matter.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Vicman

Now this is extended to minorities too:

MLK was quite imperfect too.. Racist propaganda tries to harp on his infidelities to his wife. Yet good dudes know that his infidelities don’t take away from his achievements.

And George Floyd.. he was far from perfect, and yet I am touched how most of the public accepts that and rightfully Acknowledges him as a beloved member of his family.

And who in government is trying to rename anything or erase him?

He was also a communist in the Cold War. His infidelities with his wife are factual not racist. And the FBI report from those spying on him said far worse. But that's based on one source, unlike his infidelities with his wife.

Harriet Tubman recruited people for John Y. Brown's terrorist/treasonist raid on Harper's Ferry. And yet they are trying to put her on the $20 bill.

MLK's good outweighed his imperfections. But honoring someone who supported a terrorist on our currency takes away any credibility the US has on the issue.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by Hopeful for Life

I’ve thought that this school was oddly named for a POTUS who was an unabashed racist. Among his misdeeds were: Racial segregation of federal employees and the military forces, screening Birth of a Nation in the White House, absolute refusal to meet with black leaders and signing the 13th Amendment which gave us federal income tax and establishing the Federal . Perhaps it is time to rethink why he should be so deserving of having this school named for him?

Don't people realize they were products of their times? The things that happened, they didn't know any better. It's the world they were born into. People back then weren't near as educated and sophisticated and cosmopolitan and worldly as the people are in 2020. It's not fair to judge people who lived over a hundred years ago based on the morals and values of today. People are not perfect. They are human beings. Human beings make mistakes. You can find racist stuff on just about any white American who lived before WW2. The further back in time you go, the more racist they get.

In the name of consistency, I'm really surprised these politicaly correct Snowflake types are not in favor of dynamiting Mt Rushmore because, afterall, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners. Lincoln said he didn't believe in slavery but he did not believe blacks were equal to whites; and I'm sure Teddy Roosevelt said or did something racist during his lifetime in the United States that is totally unacceptable by today's standards..

[Vicman]

I'm not saying his infidelities are not factual. There are very much true. However racists *do* try to unfairly use his infidelities as ammunition against him, saying that they overshadow all of his accomplishments. The correct response is to acknowledge his faults, say that he did great things anyway, attack the racists' tu quoque, and shame the racists. (this was shown in a classroom exercise I had while in university)

Perhaps Tubman is "forgiven" because she ended up fighting for the Union in the Civil War.

I didn't know the John Brown thing until today. From Wikipedia (certainly not the most academic source) it seems Browns's goal was to steal the weapons to cause an insurrection against the State of Virginia - which I think at the time was justified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B..._Harpers_Ferry ... I would completely brush it off if it was a state of Virginia armory he planned against (and he was convicted and executed by the state of Virginia). I am a little bit troubled that it he targeted a federal armory instead, so I'll do some research.

Originally Posted by bu2

And who in government is trying to rename anything or erase him?

He was also a communist in the Cold War. His infidelities with his wife are factual not racist. And the FBI report from those spying on him said far worse. But that's based on one source, unlike his infidelities with his wife.

Harriet Tubman recruited people for John Y. Brown's terrorist/treasonist raid on Harper's Ferry. And yet they are trying to put her on the $20 bill.

MLK's good outweighed his imperfections. But honoring someone who supported a terrorist on our currency takes away any credibility the US has on the issue.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by bu2

And who in government is trying to rename anything or erase him?

He was also a communist in the Cold War. His infidelities with his wife are factual not racist. And the FBI report from those spying on him said far worse. But that's based on one source, unlike his infidelities with his wife.

Harriet Tubman recruited people for John Y. Brown's terrorist/treasonist raid on Harper's Ferry. And yet they are trying to put her on the $20 bill.

MLK's good outweighed his imperfections. But honoring someone who supported a terrorist on our currency takes away any credibility the US has on the issue.

Our own President calls terrorists "very fine people" but 40% of the country supports him with enthusiasm. Selective outrage.