Why do we have a public elementary school named Woodrow Wilson Montessori? (Houston: based, effect)

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

thank you.



I agree, people are not perfect and we have different standards today than we did in the past. I think it's important to assess the sum of someone's accomplishments before putting up any kind of a decontextualized monument to them. By decontextualized, I am referring to the difference between including people in history books, vs. putting their name on a school or putting up a statue. Or, in the example you give, Mt. Rushmore.

I am not in favor of the destruction of monuments (Mr. Rushmore or confederate statues). I am decidedly opposed to their destruction. I am in favor of the re-contextualization of such monuments. For example, what Houston is doing (look, I brought the thread back to Houston!) with the two confederate monuments we are taking down. They are being moved to museums, where they can be displayed with a discussion of who the person is, good and bad, and why the statue was put up, and why it was taken down. That all makes for a very good story, and a much more complete one, than a plaque with a name on it.

So NO, I wouldn't be in favor of dynamiting Mt. Rushmore. I've never been there so I don't know what the presentation is. But if there's nothing there that tells the full story of who those men were, then it should be added.

I'm also not in favor of destroying Mt Rushmore because each of the POTUSes did mostly good for the country along with the bad. In Washington's time, starting a new independent republic was a radical idea. He and Jefferson deserve much credit for what the did. Lincoln was probably a racist like most whites of his era. but he also saw to it that slaves would be freed and that he had to preserve the Union I'm a huge fan of Teddy Roosevelt who was very progressive for his time.
I just wish that such a grand display existed to commemorate the Native American leaders of those times. Years ago, I remember that a famous sculptor who was commemorating Chief Joseph was featured on 60 Minutes. I'm not sure of his creation ever came to fruition?

[KerrTown]

Originally Posted by Hopeful for Life

I'm also not in favor of destroying Mt Rushmore because each of the POTUSes did mostly good for the country along with the bad. In Washington's time, starting a new independent republic was a radical idea. He and Jefferson deserve much credit for what the did. Lincoln was probably a racist like most whites of his era. but he also saw to it that slaves would be freed and that he had to preserve the Union

Actually racial equality was as controversial as "open borders" during his time. Earlier, as a young man, Abe Lincoln was an advocate of African colonization and a huge supporter of Liberia.

The difference between the anti-slavery and abolitionist movements was that the former never sought racial equality, while the latter did. Lincoln was firmly anti-slavery, with the famous quote of a man being deprived of his labor (he at least saw blacks as human; but not equal to the white man).

Illinois really needs to drop the "Land of Lincoln" schtick!

Thomas Jefferson was definitely a hypocritical disgrace with his relationship with Sally. But Strom Thurmond was no different either when it came to satisfying sexual urges, regardless of race.

If the Religious Right finds out about Washington's deism, they might well conclude that the American Revolution was a rebellion against the rightfully divinely ordained King.

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

Actually racial equality was as controversial as "open borders" during his time. Earlier, as a young man, Abe Lincoln was an advocate of African colonization and a huge supporter of Liberia.

The difference between the anti-slavery and abolitionist movements was that the former never sought racial equality, while the latter did. Lincoln was firmly anti-slavery, with the famous quote of a man being deprived of his labor (he at least saw blacks as human; but not equal to the white man).

Illinois really needs to drop the "Land of Lincoln" schtick!

Thomas Jefferson was definitely a hypocritical disgrace with his relationship with Sally. But Strom Thurmond was no different either when it came to satisfying sexual urges, regardless of race.

If the Religious Right finds out about Washington's deism, they might well conclude that the American Revolution was a rebellion against the rightfully divinely ordained King.

This is what I've claimed all along:



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-policy-school

[Vicman]

Princeton University is renaming its Woodrow Wilson Public Policy School https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53207649

Note he was the university's 13th president.

I wish he was still alive now so he could see this... while it's true he helped with diplomacy his insistence on racial segregation in federal institutions are NOT a value we live by today.

People can be punished for what they did in their lifetimes long after theyve passed, and I think that's a lesson for powerful people today.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Vicman

Princeton University is renaming its Woodrow Wilson Public Policy School https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53207649

Note he was the university's 13th president.

I wish he was still alive now so he could see this... while it's true he helped with diplomacy his insistence on racial segregation in federal institutions are NOT a value we live by today.

People can be punished for what they did in their lifetimes long after theyve passed, and I think that's a lesson for powerful people today.

At this point, whatever is true about the afterlife, I'm sure he doesn't care. But you sure seem angry about someone who has been dead for a century.

Our generation would be seen as disgusting, vile and degenerate by those of 100 or 200 years ago (porn, pedophilia, crime) and almost certainly will be at some point in the future. Judging others by today's standards is just not reasonable.

Now Wilson could be judged by the standards of those days and he did roll back some advances.

[houston-nomad]

Rice students are asking for the removal of the statue of Will Rice. I don't know much about him, except that he founded the university, and also owned slaves, and specified that the university was for "whites only." I can totally understand why students wouldn't want a statue of him in the middle of campus. A black student might look at that every day and feel like he or she wasn't wanted there.

I wonder now about the name of the university. Can something like that be changed? Should it be?

[Seguinite]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

Rice students are asking for the removal of the statue of Will Rice. I don't know much about him, except that he founded the university, and also owned slaves, and specified that the university was for "whites only." I can totally understand why students wouldn't want a statue of him in the middle of campus. A black student might look at that every day and feel like he or she wasn't wanted there.

I wonder now about the name of the university. Can something like that be changed? Should it be?

If something like that really offended a black student, why would they have pursued admission to begin with?

I grew up in Indiana, and remember my dad went to PS-119 or something like that. As in public school. Somebody would probably find a reason for that to be offensive nowadays.

[hbcu]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

If something like that really offended a black student, why would they have pursued admission to begin with?

I grew up in Indiana, and remember my dad went to PS-119 or something like that. As in public school. Somebody would probably find a reason for that to be offensive nowadays.

That’s my issue with all this crap - you never were wanted and only reason you got in was either a law or they saw money making value from athletics.

They’ll create all this crap and leave and won’t even associate with the school after cause they never felt accepted.

You have schools where you’re wanted but pride and a false light has always been the weakness of our community

[bu2]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

Rice students are asking for the removal of the statue of Will Rice. I don't know much about him, except that he founded the university, and also owned slaves, and specified that the university was for "whites only." I can totally understand why students wouldn't want a statue of him in the middle of campus. A black student might look at that every day and feel like he or she wasn't wanted there.

I wonder now about the name of the university. Can something like that be changed? Should it be?

There is a movement to "cancel Yale." He was a slave trader who had a pretty bad reputation for his treatment of his "assets."

[Vicman]

If it didnt matter to him because hes dead, no big deal if someone removes it, right?

To be frank : it does matter and one would care about a tarnished legacy. That's why posthumous trials in the past had been held (in other countries) with the likes of Oliver Cromwell being a noted example.

The reply also supposes anger is always foolish when in fact it's an ingredient of motivating people making meaningful change. One cant use too much anger nor put it in the wrong situations. Handle with care.

Originally Posted by bu2

At this point, whatever is true about the afterlife, I'm sure he doesn't care. But you sure seem angry about someone who has been dead for a century.

Our generation would be seen as disgusting, vile and degenerate by those of 100 or 200 years ago (porn, pedophilia, crime) and almost certainly will be at some point in the future. Judging others by today's standards is just not reasonable.

Now Wilson could be judged by the standards of those days and he did roll back some advances.