HSV potential city for relocation of Boeing jetliner facility (Huntsville: income, income tax)

[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Missourian

Please explain. From a logistics perspective, CHS seems like a shoe-in. I'm genuinely interested to know what is going against them. I'd love to see HSV win out, but I'm trying to stay objective.

Nothing's going against Charleston. We have had a ton of friends move from St Louis, FL, and here to the Charleston location. Its growing. My husband has a coworker who is constantly TDY there.

Boeing made one of the best moves it has made by moving those production facilities to Charleston, another right to work state.

Charleston has had some issues in regards to the Dreamliner production. Dreamliner, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the 777. They have been building the 777 since 1995, the Dreamliner was a completely new design/plane that was introduced in 2011.

It will come down between the two (HSV and Charleston)....and most we know in Boeing think Charleston has a SLIGHT edge with the existing commercial production there, but we do have the means and the land to accommodate. We are mostly IDS here, Charleston has much more on the commercial side that HSV.

[Seth Parker]

Charleston the city has a lot going for it. Sites that can accommodate what Boeing needs do not. You're also not considering the possibility that they keep operations in WA. I would consider the highest probability that they stay put. If anything pushes them away, it will be the local government and union.

[Wandering_Missourian]

My guess at the odds:
50% (Keep it in WA.... after all this jawboning and the union rolls over)
30% (Move to CHS)
20% (Move to HSV)

Austin, TX is supposedly on the list, but I don't see how that is a viable choice.

[Seth Parker]

I would say 65% WA, 35% the field.

[eskercurve]

777X is a totally new airplane basically from a systems perspective, the wings are totally new as well and made of carbon fiber as opposed to titanium and aluminum with the current 777. The new airplane will also have folding wingtips and much more advanced avionics, to reflect what's been learned in the past 20 years since it entered production, and the past 25+ years since the program started. It's also wider than the old 777. It's more than a simple derivative. In fact, engineers I talk to who were part of the sales campaign said that customers didn't want just a re-engined airplane. If it weren't for the similar size in carrying passenger count, they'd might as well call it a whole new airplane.

Anyway, I know a number of people who work on the line at Boeing. I wonder just how disconnected these yahoos are from reality. Not in the sense you may be thinking though ... many of them voted "No" to their contract extension because they thought they had a couple years to negotiate before the program started. Well they launched the program last weekend officially. Oops! Many of the guys I speak to say they wish they had known, else they would have voted in favor. I wonder which of the dozens of hints that were dropped were missed.

My personal prediction is the union and the company will work out a strategy to talk to one another again and both basically said they fumbled talking to the rank and file and to each other, and a week was probably not enough time to consider everything. Then, after some back and forth, will come to an agreement.

Boeing's stated that they're never going to leave WA, but they will be growing other sites. I personally think they should. It makes sense from a business perspective in many ways: risk, cost, defense/commercial cycles. In fact, nothing would stop them from opening two 777X lines. I could totally see that happening. Not to mention if Boeing left a large number of skilled folks would rather quit and work for suppliers or other companies than stay with the company but have to move, and in today's political environment it pays to have as many dogs in your corner as possible, and WA has a habit of getting on influential committees.

My prediction is thus: they'll start the production run in Everett, get the bugs worked out, then open a new line somewhere else. The new 777 line will be highly automated, so the high cost of labor is less of a factor.

[Reactionary]

Thankfully, Huntsville has existing training programs (Calhoun's robotics center) and experience with 'highly automated' production.

[Seth Parker]

Originally Posted by eskercurve

777X is a totally new airplane basically from a systems perspective, the wings are totally new as well and made of carbon fiber as opposed to titanium and aluminum with the current 777. The new airplane will also have folding wingtips and much more advanced avionics, to reflect what's been learned in the past 20 years since it entered production, and the past 25+ years since the program started. It's also wider than the old 777. It's more than a simple derivative. In fact, engineers I talk to who were part of the sales campaign said that customers didn't want just a re-engined airplane. If it weren't for the similar size in carrying passenger count, they'd might as well call it a whole new airplane.

Anyway, I know a number of people who work on the line at Boeing. I wonder just how disconnected these yahoos are from reality. Not in the sense you may be thinking though ... many of them voted "No" to their contract extension because they thought they had a couple years to negotiate before the program started. Well they launched the program last weekend officially. Oops! Many of the guys I speak to say they wish they had known, else they would have voted in favor. I wonder which of the dozens of hints that were dropped were missed.

My personal prediction is the union and the company will work out a strategy to talk to one another again and both basically said they fumbled talking to the rank and file and to each other, and a week was probably not enough time to consider everything. Then, after some back and forth, will come to an agreement.

Boeing's stated that they're never going to leave WA, but they will be growing other sites. I personally think they should. It makes sense from a business perspective in many ways: risk, cost, defense/commercial cycles. In fact, nothing would stop them from opening two 777X lines. I could totally see that happening. Not to mention if Boeing left a large number of skilled folks would rather quit and work for suppliers or other companies than stay with the company but have to move, and in today's political environment it pays to have as many dogs in your corner as possible, and WA has a habit of getting on influential committees.

My prediction is thus: they'll start the production run in Everett, get the bugs worked out, then open a new line somewhere else. The new 777 line will be highly automated, so the high cost of labor is less of a factor.

Very well thought out and informed response. I think you're spot on.

[padmaster]

Originally Posted by lizinva

The one reason Boeing might choose S.C over Huntsville is that we are land locked. These planes will need to be shipped so for that reason alone Huntsville will need to fight hard.

Shipped? Why would they need to ship a plane? Don't planes fly?

[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by Seth Parker

Charleston the city has a lot going for it. Sites that can accommodate what Boeing needs do not. You're also not considering the possibility that they keep operations in WA. I would consider the highest probability that they stay put. If anything pushes them away, it will be the local government and union.

The last time the WA unions bucked up to Boeing like this in 2009, they moved production of the 787 to Charleston.

Charleston has what Boeing would need to move the 777. HSV does as well (landwise).

Local government and union is what is CURRENTLY pushing them out of WA state.

Do you even stop to consider how much Boeing would save by not having to deal with these unions? I don't think you quite understand how these forced unions operate up there.

[AU HSV]

Originally Posted by padmaster

Shipped? Why would they need to ship a plane? Don't planes fly?

pieces of the plane built elsewhere are shipped to the final assembly location