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To the bolded, that may be so in your opinion, but you can't debate in generalizations. You have to debate what people actually say.
Why don;t you stop debating the "types" and start debating the actual people on this thread?
I thought those two statements deserved repeating... I know they fall on deaf ears in this forum, but at least some of us are trying!! It's like talking to a brick wall, though. I could say "that man is wearing a purple shirt," and somebody here would inevitably respond with "you open border types are all the same; do you want your taxes supporting these illegal immigrants?" LOL
Then turn it around. Exactly why should there be unlimited immigration? How will having the USA be the only nation in the world with no immigration laws, no borders benefit the American people? Especially with our unemployment rates now up to 10%?
Where did I say there should be unlmited immigration? Please, I can't have a conversation with you if you refuse to read what I write. Of course I am always open to being wrong so when you quote me where I said any of this was ok, then I will take the time to answer you.
Quote:
Exactly how is it great for people to keep showing up here by the semi-trailers to take jobs at any low wage just to get their foot here and then qualify for food stamps and whatever government handouts needed to maintain large families and their high birth rate?
Again, never said that. As to the food stamp point...in what country are illegal immigrants eligible to get food stamps? The USDA 2008 breakdown of food stamp recipients by ethnicity is as follows...
Quote:
The racial breakdown of food stamp recipients is as follows:
41% white
36% African-American
18% Hispanic
3% Asian
2% Native American
1% unknown race or ethnicity
The only tax money I can think of that goes directly to the aid of illegal immigrants is possibly the use of county hospitals and their children's use of our public schools. For the public school point, it is thier children that are using it and our laws as of now state that you are a citizen if born on US soil. You may not like that law, but since you seem to be very adament about legal issues, that si the law as it is now. So I doubt that public schooling is being hijacked by illegal immigrant children.
So that leaves county hospitals. Considering illegal immigrants are constantly worried about being deported, it is very rare they seek medical help unless it is an emergency. However, Republicans seem to believe (and let's take them at their word for sake of argument) that the high cost of medical care stems from law suits and malpractice insurance. Well, illegal immigrants cannot sue in most states. And even in those like New York wher they are said to be able to file a civil lawsuit, the fear again of deportation is way too high.
Quote:
Should we just send ships out to every continent to load them up with people who want out of poverty? Keep in mind there are over 2 billion impoverished people throughout the world. If getting to the USA is the only answer then isn't it only fair that we provide them all the means to get here?
Tell us exactly why we should be taxed to death to provide the food stamps, the free health care, the free housing and everything the low wage immigrants in unlimited numbers will need in order to live here considering our very high costs of living. And we all know that those coming for the dirt low wages cannot afford their larger than normal families with our costs of living, nor can we expect them to ever learn our language which will keep them at lower wage scales. But again - exactly how does this benefit the American people, especially the American taxpayer?
I think I answered that already. But again, for the third time just in case you missed it. I don't think breaking the law is alright. I don't think we should have open borders either. What I do think it that the only way to control this issue is to crack down on the reasons they feel it is advantagious to come here int he first place. To me, the companies that profit off the backs of desperate peoples is where most of the blame lies. Yet I don't hear the outrage to that.
Oh and the learning the language thing, I just won't touch. That has nothing to do with being an illegal immigrant. That is a common complaint slung to almost all Spanish speaking people in the US, citizen or not.
Where did I say there should be unlmited immigration? Please, I can't have a conversation with you if you refuse to read what I write. Of course I am always open to being wrong so when you quote me where I said any of this was ok, then I will take the time to answer you.
Again, never said that. As to the food stamp point...in what country are illegal immigrants eligible to get food stamps? The USDA 2008 breakdown of food stamp recipients by ethnicity is as follows...
The only tax money I can think of that goes directly to the aid of illegal immigrants is possibly the use of county hospitals and their children's use of our public schools. For the public school point, it is thier children that are using it and our laws as of now state that you are a citizen if born on US soil. You may not like that law, but since you seem to be very adament about legal issues, that si the law as it is now. So I doubt that public schooling is being hijacked by illegal immigrant children.
So that leaves county hospitals. Considering illegal immigrants are constantly worried about being deported, it is very rare they seek medical help unless it is an emergency. However, Republicans seem to believe (and let's take them at their word for sake of argument) that the high cost of medical care stems from law suits and malpractice insurance. Well, illegal immigrants cannot sue in most states. And even in those like New York wher they are said to be able to file a civil lawsuit, the fear again of deportation is way too high.
I think I answered that already. But again, for the third time just in case you missed it. I don't think breaking the law is alright. I don't think we should have open borders either. What I do think it that the only way to control this issue is to crack down on the reasons they feel it is advantagious to come here int he first place. To me, the companies that profit off the backs of desperate peoples is where most of the blame lies. Yet I don't hear the outrage to that.
Oh and the learning the language thing, I just won't touch. That has nothing to do with being an illegal immigrant. That is a common complaint slung to almost all Spanish speaking people in the US, citizen or not.
This is one of your lies I have bolded above. We have discussed our outrage at the employers hiring illegal aliens in many topics in here. We want e-verify implemented across the board and the employers to be fined, jailed and even to lose their business licenses if they don't comply. We hold our government, the employers and the illegals equally guilty and they should be. Sympathizers like yourself though treat illegals like they are little babies who don't know right from wrong and don't want to hold them accountable for any of this. Try reading the many posts on this subject instead of coming in here claiming we aren't outraged about the greedy employers. There are just as many posts about them in here as there are about the illegals themselves but you apparently are too blinded to see them.
Where did I say there should be unlmited immigration? Please, I can't have a conversation with you if you refuse to read what I write. Of course I am always open to being wrong so when you quote me where I said any of this was ok, then I will take the time to answer you.
Again, never said that. As to the food stamp point...in what country are illegal immigrants eligible to get food stamps? The USDA 2008 breakdown of food stamp recipients by ethnicity is as follows...
The only tax money I can think of that goes directly to the aid of illegal immigrants is possibly the use of county hospitals and their children's use of our public schools. For the public school point, it is thier children that are using it and our laws as of now state that you are a citizen if born on US soil. You may not like that law, but since you seem to be very adament about legal issues, that si the law as it is now. So I doubt that public schooling is being hijacked by illegal immigrant children.
So that leaves county hospitals. Considering illegal immigrants are constantly worried about being deported, it is very rare they seek medical help unless it is an emergency. However, Republicans seem to believe (and let's take them at their word for sake of argument) that the high cost of medical care stems from law suits and malpractice insurance. Well, illegal immigrants cannot sue in most states. And even in those like New York wher they are said to be able to file a civil lawsuit, the fear again of deportation is way too high.
I think I answered that already. But again, for the third time just in case you missed it. I don't think breaking the law is alright. I don't think we should have open borders either. What I do think it that the only way to control this issue is to crack down on the reasons they feel it is advantagious to come here int he first place. To me, the companies that profit off the backs of desperate peoples is where most of the blame lies. Yet I don't hear the outrage to that.
Oh and the learning the language thing, I just won't touch. That has nothing to do with being an illegal immigrant. That is a common complaint slung to almost all Spanish speaking people in the US, citizen or not.
Far too many mostly Spanish speaking people in this country regardless of their status who do know English refuse to use it unless they have to. I don't care what language someone speaks at home but if they truly want to assimilate into our society why don't they use English in public? This is a non-assimilation factor IMO. I realize we have freedom of speech in this country but this is about rudeness and non-assimilation. If I moved to a foreign country the first thing I would do is learn their language and use it in public out of respect.
I don't have a problem with it being used in ethnic "business" neighborhoods but look at Miami and much of So. Florida. Spanish is the primary language, not English. I wouldn't call that assimilation and the Cubans have been there for decades now. It is starting to be the same thing in many cities in the southwest and it is happening mostly due to illegal immigration from Mexico. Our national language isn't Spanish, it is English.
Last edited by chicagonut; 01-02-2011 at 09:21 AM..
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,463,144 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Gizmo980 wrote:
I hate to be the grammar/spelling police tonight,
You have plenty of posts with misspelled words and unfit grammar. Noone has barated you about it. (at least not in public)
So could you have the common courtesy to lay off of other posters about it?..
You have plenty of posts with misspelled words and unfit grammar. Noone has barated you about it. (at least not in public)
I highly doubt it... I'm incredibly anal about my spelling and grammar, even on internet forums.
Quote:
So could you have the common courtesy to lay off of other posters about it?
Not when they're calling other people stupid fools... don't dish it if you can't take it! I normally don't bother people about spelling/grammar, since that would be rude and a waste of time. But when you call OTHER people stupid (or lacking in English skills), it just reeks of irony and humor.
This is one of your lies I have bolded above. We have discussed our outrage at the employers hiring illegal aliens in many topics in here. We want e-verify implemented across the board and the employers to be fined, jailed and even to lose their business licenses if they don't comply. We hold our government, the employers and the illegals equally guilty and they should be. Sympathizers like yourself though treat illegals like they are little babies who don't know right from wrong and don't want to hold them accountable for any of this. Try reading the many posts on this subject instead of coming in here claiming we aren't outraged about the greedy employers. There are just as many posts about them in here as there are about the illegals themselves but you apparently are too blinded to see them.
This is one of your lies? What are you a concpiracy theorist? I don't have lies, I am just having a discussion. If you disagree howz about we just say, "I disagree" and lay off the drama queen-over inflated-fear mongering rhetoric.
Now, I get that you disagree and I appreciate the whole e-verifying thing. But when I look at just this forum alone, I see miles of threads about Mexicans and the immigrants themselves. I read inflammatory posts about how they are lazy, taking our taxes and our jobs, etc., etc., etc. But not much about the corperations as I talked about and defintiley not with the same amount of contempt. If people put half the energy into that aspect that they do into complaining and screaming about Mexicans, I will have no qualms believing you.
Far too many mostly Spanish speaking people in this country regardless of their status who do know English refuse to use it unless they have to. I don't care what language someone speaks at home but they truly want to assimilate into our society why don't they use English in public? This is a non-assimilation factor IMO. I realize we have freedom of speech in this country but this is about rudeness and non-assimilation. If I moved to a foreign country the first thing I would do is learn their language and use it in public out of respect.
I don't have a problem with it ethnic "business" neighborhoods but look at Miami and much of So. Florida. Spanish is the primary language, not English. I wouldn't call that assimilation and the Cubans have been there for decades now. It is starting to be the same thing in many cities in the southwest and it is happening mostly due to illegal immigration from Mexico. Our national language isn't Spanish, it is English.
Like I said, I refuse to get into this debate with you. Plus it is not relevant to this thread or this board. As a Cuban American, I am proof that you ahve no idea what you are talking about. My English is quite bueno.
They funny thing is, I never called anyone racist. It's hard to debate people who have such poor reading comprehension skills.
What you did is to call us "insecure". You never answered my question as to why you feel we are insecure for just wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced because that is all we really want.
Another thing you did is bring up a so-called anti-immigrationist's views (when they also are probably only anti-illegal alien rather than anti-immigrant.) Why would you do that since it has nothing to do with those of us in this forum? I asked you for a link to a statement by Stoddard that would indicate that they are anti-immigrant. You supplied none.
You also brought up radicals wearing camoflouge hunting illegals. What has that to do with us in this forum? None of us do that. Your insinutations and implications that we are racists stick out like a sore thumb. You just try to be very subtle about it. Well sorry, but we aren't stupid in here.
What you did is to call us "insecure". You never answered my question as to why you feel we are insecure for just wanting our immigration laws respected and enforced because that is all we really want.
Another thing you did is bring up a so-called anti-immigrationist's views (when they also are probably only anti-illegal alien rather than anti-immigrant.) Why would you do that since it has nothing to do with those of us in this forum? I asked you for a link to a statement by Stoddard that would indicate that they are anti-immigrant. You supplied none.
You also brought up radicals wearing camoflouge hunting illegals. What has that to do with us in this forum? None of us do that. Your insinutations and implications that we are racists stick out like a sore thumb. You just try to be very subtle about it. Well sorry, but we aren't stupid in here.
Yes I did say y'all were insecure. Not because of your opinion on immigration but because of the posts slandering and berating my education and the personal attacks, which I don't have to tell you are against forum rules.
I brought up anti-immigration because I was using Stoddard as a referance point for various definitions of race. I think I already explained that. As to a link on Stoddard, I apologize for assuming you were not capable of using google or an encyclopedia yourself to look up historical figures you may not be familiar with. What I learn came from college classes, not google, so I did not have a link to supply when I posted it.
Here is a segment about him from Wikipedia (though I am not fond of wiki myself as a reference, but it's the first thing that came up).
Quote:
Theodore Lothrop Stoddard (June 29, 1883 – May 1, 1950) was an American political scientist, historian, journalist, anthropologist, eugenicist, pacifist, and anti-immigration advocate who wrote a number of books which are cited by historians as prominent examples of early 20th-century scientific racism.
And as for the camo statment, please for heaven sakes actually read my post. I never insinuated you did that or anyone here did for that matter. But instead of me going back to quote what I said, how about you reread it and see if you can't figure out what I was trying to say for yourself. Seriously, I am not going to be an organic intellectual for you.
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