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So how many of you here ever consumed alcohol and got drunk before the age of 21? How about going over the speed limit? How about lying about your age or making a fake id to buy certain products and get into certain places you weren't supposed to be going when you were younger.
If you've ever done any of these things, you are a lawbreaker who has no respect for this country or its laws. The law is the law.
And, anyone who did the things (and more) that you mentioned, when they get caught - they deserve to be punished -
In the case of illegal immigrants - their punishment is deportation.
So how many of you here ever consumed alcohol and got drunk before the age of 21? How about going over the speed limit? How about lying about your age or making a fake id to buy certain products and get into certain places you weren't supposed to be going when you were younger.
If you've ever done any of these things, you are a lawbreaker who has no respect for this country or its laws. The law is the law.
Citizens breaking minor laws has absolutely nothing to do with foreigners coming here and breaking the laws. An illegal is not equivalent to a citizen in any way.
Just like in Mexico there might be shoplifters, speeders, jaywalkers and so on but they wouldn't make it somehow right for Americans to break Mexico's laws.
I always wonder why someone who broke into our country illegally ever gets US Citizenship when there are tons of good people waiting outside of America who will never get a Green Card or even visit America. On the other hand, some people feel that the people who are already here should get US Citizenship as long as they get at the end of the CURRENT LINE.
What do you think? Should the people who are here illegally ever get US Citizenship?
NO!!!!!!!!! Send them home, take retinal scans and fingerprints and DNA first. If they return, jail them. [moderator cut: inappropriate comments]
Last edited by madicarus2000; 06-05-2008 at 09:13 PM..
Reason: Inappropriate comments
No, they should be permanently barred from ever becoming U.S. citizens. Period.
If someone broke into your house and stole from you, would you invite them to be your roommate in the future?
These people know that there is a correct procedure for becoming citizens of this country, but they obviously think they are more important than the people waiting in line to do it the right way. We need to show them that the opposite is true.
Not everyone here illegally is a thief. Not if they're gainfully employed and provide lawful services for money they receive, or receive money from folks willing to give it to them. Stealing is a crime whose proof is the burden of the accuser, and it's a serious accusation. Furthermore, we are not entitled to their labor for free. To insinuate otherwise strikes me as at least kneejerk reactionarism.
The folks who do not have criminal backgrounds should move to the end of the line.
The fundamental thing for me is these folks are cutting in line ahead of rule-abiding folks. Cutting in line by itself does not justify a permanent bar. However, there should be background checks, fines etc. And they should earn the citizenship; it shouldn't be handed to them. There should also be taxes on the income they received while here illegally. Some sort of policy should be in place to frustrate other countries' attempts to use illegal immigration in America as a revenue stream for their own countries (Mexico, I'm lookin' at you), especially if those countries will not do anything to discourage their expatriates from funneling money back to their country, nor will they improve the conditions that drive citizens out.
Not everyone here illegally is a thief. Not if they're gainfully employed and provide lawful services for money they receive, or receive money from folks willing to give it to them. Stealing is a crime whose proof is the burden of the accuser, and it's a serious accusation. Furthermore, we are not entitled to their labor for free. To insinuate otherwise strikes me as at least kneejerk reactionarism.
The folks who do not have criminal backgrounds should move to the end of the line.
The fundamental thing for me is these folks are cutting in line ahead of rule-abiding folks. Cutting in line by itself does not justify a permanent bar. However, there should be background checks, fines etc. And they should earn the citizenship; it shouldn't be handed to them. There should also be taxes on the income they received while here illegally. Some sort of policy should be in place to frustrate other countries' attempts to use illegal immigration in America as a revenue stream for their own countries (Mexico, I'm lookin' at you), especially if those countries will not do anything to discourage their expatriates from funneling money back to their country, nor will they improve the conditions that drive citizens out.
amc760, blacknight, sassyone, etc...
THIS post is NOT "HATE"....It's a reasoned, well-spoken objection to illegal immigration. It may reflect frustration...however, it is NOT an example of "HATE"
In a word? NO... There should be consequences for disregarding our countries laws. This isn't even a case where they can plead ignorance. They knowingly and intensionally disregarded our laws, our right to enforce said laws and in many cases committed a host of other crimes starting with fraud, ID theft and tax evasion. NO they should be deported when caught.
And; if you are an illegal doing any of the above----------not counting ID theft?
Sorry; why being in the USA illegally is only a misdeaminor (sp) is a mystery to me.
If I understand the process correctly, being in the US in violation of the rules in and of itself is not a crime at all. It is a civil violation, and is adjudicated in an administrative-level court. This means that certain rules and rights that criminal defendants are entitled to do not apply in immigration hearings (right to counsel, and rules of evidence). And you can kick them out of the country which is not an available punishment under criminal statutes that I'm aware of. The criminal process requires due process that is not necessary or required for administrative rules violations.
Now, if another crime was committed, then I don't know, maybe being illegal may be an aggravating factor. Although I recall if someone is deported, they are barred from reentry for like 10 years or something. And if they return and get caught, I seem to recall they face prison time. But maybe that's if they are caught for an actual crime . . .
In a word? NO... There should be consequences for disregarding our countries laws. This isn't even a case where they can plead ignorance. They knowingly and intensionally disregarded our laws, our right to enforce said laws and in many cases committed a host of other crimes starting with fraud, ID theft and tax evasion. NO they should be deported when caught.
I disagree with a universal indefinite bar against reentry. The reality is regardless of how stringent our rules are, there will always be illegal entries, and especially overstays of visas (people who don't leave after expirationi). There needs to be a recognition of the difference between someone who is here breaking the rules and, yes, essentially cheating, but beyond that obeying the other laws, and someone who is here doing both. There should be different levels of punishment for each. But my thing is the lowest punishment should be a stiff fine, a tax on moneys earned (a fantasy of mine which would be almost impossible to monitor), and going to the end of the line. And then punishments should escalate depending on aggravating factors...
As much as I am insulted by the sense of entitlement by illegal sympathizers, I recognize that not all illegals are the same. They should all be punished, but in accordance with the gravity of their conduct.
If I understand the process correctly, being in the US in violation of the rules in and of itself is not a crime at all. It is a civil violation, and is adjudicated in an administrative-level court. This means that certain rules and rights that criminal defendants are entitled to do not apply in immigration hearings (right to counsel, and rules of evidence). And you can kick them out of the country which is not an available punishment under criminal statutes that I'm aware of. The criminal process requires due process that is not necessary or required for administrative rules violations.
Now, if another crime was committed, then I don't know, maybe being illegal may be an aggravating factor. Although I recall if someone is deported, they are barred from reentry for like 10 years or something. And if they return and get caught, I seem to recall they face prison time. But maybe that's if they are caught for an actual crime . . .
If caught a second time for being here illegally------that is a Felony.
I disagree with a universal indefinite bar against reentry. The reality is regardless of how stringent our rules are, there will always be illegal entries, and especially overstays of visas (people who don't leave after expirationi). There needs to be a recognition of the difference between someone who is here breaking the rules and, yes, essentially cheating, but beyond that obeying the other laws, and someone who is here doing both. There should be different levels of punishment for each. But my thing is the lowest punishment should be a stiff fine, a tax on moneys earned (a fantasy of mine which would be almost impossible to monitor), and going to the end of the line. And then punishments should escalate depending on aggravating factors...
As much as I am insulted by the sense of entitlement by illegal sympathizers, I recognize that not all illegals are the same. They should all be punished, but in accordance with the gravity of their conduct.
Uhmm I never said indefinite ban for re-entry. I said no right to citizenship. Thats the price they pay for disregarding our laws. I agree there are different types of illegals. Some are simply here illegally. Some come here and violate a host of laws. Those who commit crimes should without doubt be banned permanantly.
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GENERAL ALERT to PRO-ILLEGALS II
