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I get a kick out of the people who want gov't out of business, except when the owner hires someone they don't like. Then it's ok to abandon the idea of a truly competitive marketplace, gov't intervention is THE ONLY WAY to make sure those poor American folk can compete with unskilled, uneducated immigrants!!
I get a kick out of those who want government involvment unless the gov is enforcing laws they dont agree with.
In all competitions there are rules or in this case laws. Its not a competition if the rules are ignored by some. I can work for about 30% cheaper and still have my standard of living if I wasn't paying taxes on those dollars I earn.
Do you want the gov to enforce laws on civil service? Should all citizens have the same opprotunity for those jobs? Or do you believe that elected reps should be able to fill all the positions with friends and family? Me? I want the laws enforced.
In the private sector I have no issue competing against fellow citizens and legal residents. We all pay our taxes and none are cheating the system or breaking laws to do it.
Illegals. Every one of them is a cheat and not one of them have a right to be here let alone work here.
You might have a valid point if we were discussing the value of one human versus another , but we are not.
Of course we are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
We are discussing the fact that the job of our government is to put the needs of our nation in other words the citizens of this nation first and above those who violated our laws to come here or over stayed thier VISA.
That is not the "job of our government" it's just what you want the government to do. What I want the government to do is step aside and let people freely contract insofar as they are able. Further, we're not necessarily talking about granting rights to illegals, this applies just as much to foreigners who want to legally immigrate.
I get a kick out of those who want government involvment unless the gov is enforcing laws they dont agree with. In all competitions there are rules or in this case laws. Its not a competition if the rules are ignored by some. I can work for about 30% cheaper and still have my standard of living if I wasn't paying taxes on those dollars I earn. Do you want the gov to enforce laws on civil service? Should all citizens have the same opportunity for those jobs? Or do you believe that elected reps should be able to fill all the positions with friends and family? Me? I want the laws enforced. In the private sector I have no issue competing against fellow citizens and legal residents. We all pay our taxes and none are cheating the system or breaking laws to do it. Illegals. Every one of them is a cheat and not one of them have a right to be here let alone work here
No, you are arguing that we shouldn't let them legally come here and compete with the blue collared workers. Also, once again, these people aren't 'cheats'. They are sitting in their country still and you'd rather them stay so the blue collar workers don't have to compete. The excuse that they are 'cheats' is a convenient copout and might be valid if we were talking about amnesty but we aren't.
That is not the "job of our government" it's just what you want the government to do. What I want the government to do is step aside and let people freely contract insofar as they are able. Further, we're not necessarily talking about granting rights to illegals, this applies just as much to foreigners who want to legally immigrate.
I beg to differ. The job of our gov local state or fed is to put the needs of our citizens above all others. To represent the will of the people within the confines of our constitution.
The rights we grant to all persons are in fact spelled out in the constitution. But nowhere is it called out that illegals have a right to work or live here.
You may want illegals or for that matter any and all who wish to come here to have a clear path but the law says otherwise. The reason it says otherwise is it is designed to protect the people of this nation, to put our needs first.
Same amount of jobs, actually, you'll just have Americans filling them instead of the illegals. Which you'd prefer, because you like Americans more than other people.
Well of course I do. I am an American. I love my country and my fellow Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Nothing wrong with putting your own first. This is the United States of America where our own citizens should come first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad
Should they? I mean, are they more important than non-Americans, as human beings?
There are over 4 billion human beings in the world, should we let all of them come here?
We have laws for immigration. Let them immigrate like we have always allowed. We want people who obey the law, learn our language, and can be positive additions to our country. Not a bunch of rulebreakers who are illegal criminal aliens.
Which part of our history do you want to consider "always"? Back when we didn't let the Chinese in? Or the Turks/Slavs/other S. Europeans? I'm guessing it won't be any of those periods when we really did let in everyone.
No, you are arguing that we shouldn't let them legally come here and compete with the blue collared workers. Also, once again, these people aren't 'cheats'. They are sitting in their country still and you'd rather them stay so the blue collar workers don't have to compete. The excuse that they are 'cheats' is a convenient copout and might be valid if we were talking about amnesty but we aren't.
Amnesty is for those who are not in this country illegally?
My argument for minimum standards is stated many times. Immigration policy should reflect the needs of the nation. Unlimited immigration does not reflect our needs. We owe it to no one to grant immigration. As it is we allow more than all others combined.The thread topic is illegal aliens and amnesty. My posts reflect this. Do yours? read the bold then read thread topic please.
No copout I am on topic. If you want to start a thread about immigration policy feel free.
Which part of our history do you want to consider "always"? Back when we didn't let the Chinese in? Or the Turks/Slavs/other S. Europeans? I'm guessing it won't be any of those periods when we really did let in everyone.
Back then America had a strict immigration method to become American.
Not like today where most hispanics feel you must break the law & demand to be American.
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