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Exactly. It is designed to try and force acceptance at some point. After acceptance is obtained then the attempt is made to justify why illegal immigration. You said you would accept it if.... Therefore it it isn't bad.
Sort of like if I asked: If your wife were dying and you could only get her to a hospital if you stole a car. Would you?
Of course most would say that they would steal a car. It's an emergency, your wife will die otherwise.
They will then say : "How can you condemn car thieves when you admit that you would steal a car also?"
Exactly. It is designed to try and force acceptance at some point. After acceptance is obtained then the attempt is made to justify why illegal immigration. You said you would accept it if.... Therefore it it isn't bad.
Sort of like if I asked: If your wife were dying and you could only get her to a hospital if you stole a car. Would you?
Of course most would say that they would steal a car. It's an emergency, your wife will die otherwise.
They will then say : "How can you condemn car thieves when you admit that you would steal a car also?"
At least if you steal a car, you can return it unharmed to the owner and pay him a bit for the inconvenience/gas you used.
You can't "return" illegal presence in this country. There's no amount of money that can account for it unless you want to liquidate every asset you acquired here and return it to the people whose jobs you stole and taxes you wasted.
Exactly. It is designed to try and force acceptance at some point. After acceptance is obtained then the attempt is made to justify why illegal immigration. You said you would accept it if.... Therefore it it isn't bad.
Sort of like if I asked: If your wife were dying and you could only get her to a hospital if you stole a car. Would you?
Of course most would say that they would steal a car. It's an emergency, your wife will die otherwise.
They will then say : "How can you condemn car thieves when you admit that you would steal a car also?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Great analogy, tinman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
At least if you steal a car, you can return it unharmed to the owner and pay him a bit for the inconvenience/gas you used.
You can't "return" illegal presence in this country. There's no amount of money that can account for it unless you want to liquidate every asset you acquired here and return it to the people whose jobs you stole and taxes you wasted.
At least if you steal a car, you can return it unharmed to the owner and pay him a bit for the inconvenience/gas you used.
You can't "return" illegal presence in this country. There's no amount of money that can account for it unless you want to liquidate every asset you acquired here and return it to the people whose jobs you stole and taxes you wasted.
Exactly.
OP's intent was to create a do or die situation. One where if you stand by your principles the unthinkable will happen. The intent was to force the board to surrender to what we feel is wrong, by justifying it with the heart of your loved one.
The reality is that very seldom in life do we face such do or die moments. Your child or your wife scenarios.
The entire poll is based on this.
If you stand on principle you are a heartless retch or a liar.
If it were my daughter or son I would explain the consequences. How such a decision can ruin their lives. I would never endorse the union. As adults they are free to marry who they wish. Such decisions come at a cost.
If your daughter came to you and said "Dad I really love this man, Ivan is hear illegally and he has asked me to marry him. I want to marry him."
I would say "I love you and want you to be happy. Life with a criminal seldom ends well. I will not consent to the marriage under these circumstances. Ivan must go home and try to enter legally. If he respects me, your father, or you his future wife, he would never expect my daughter to marry under such conditions.
My answer is no.
Exactly.
OP's intent was to create a do or die situation. One where if you stand by your principles the unthinkable will happen. The intent was to force the board to surrender to what we feel is wrong, by justifying it with the heart of your loved one.
The reality is that very seldom in life do we face such do or die moments. Your child or your wife scenarios.
The entire poll is based on this.
If you stand on principle you are a heartless retch or a liar.
If it were my daughter or son I would explain the consequences. How such a decision can ruin their lives. I would never endorse the union. As adults they are free to marry who they wish. Such decisions come at a cost.
If your daughter came to you and said "Dad I really love this man, Ivan is hear illegally and he has asked me to marry him. I want to marry him."
I would say "I love you and want you to be happy. Life with a criminal seldom ends well. I will not consent to the marriage under these circumstances. Ivan must go home and try to enter legally. If he respects me, your father, or you his future wife, he would never expect my daughter to marry under such conditions.
My answer is no.
I was going to respond to some responses on here and I saw this post and my first thought was no, no, no.
It is a do or die situation, you are right about that. However, I never said that anyone is a liar or made them feel bad for what you decide, whether you want to stand on principle or not. I did want to see where that line was. The problem is that you said that rarely do we face such moments and believe it or not, it happens more often than you think.
Althought I don't agree, I do respect your opinion and the conversation that you typed out. However, it is easy to say no when its not you emotionally in the situation. You are allowed to say no, but what do you think will most likely happen then? Do you honestly think that someone would break up because of this?
I think the spouse of the illegal should guide him/her legally on how to come here if they truly love each other.
That is acceptable. Maybe there is something that they can work out and if not, maybe she or he could go live with them in their country! That would be exciting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodpete
Your poll is flawed because it is only about immigration. What your asking is about someone marrying a non-resident and there is nothing wrong with that, it's done all the time.
Umm..it's in the illegal immigration forum? Did you vote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Um no, re-read the wording in the poll. It is about illegal immigration not "immigration".
Exactly, what he said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Exactly. It is designed to try and force acceptance at some point. After acceptance is obtained then the attempt is made to justify why illegal immigration. You said you would accept it if.... Therefore it it isn't bad.
Sort of like if I asked: If your wife were dying and you could only get her to a hospital if you stole a car. Would you?
Of course most would say that they would steal a car. It's an emergency, your wife will die otherwise.
They will then say : "How can you condemn car thieves when you admit that you would steal a car also?"
I am not trying to force anything. What is it with these strong words that you use? It is just supposed to be a friendly poll just to see what people here thought. You are really overthinking this way too much. No attempt was going to be made to justify anything, I just wanted to see how people might react if they thought with their hearts and not their head for once, it is easy to say no, but is it easier or harder to say no when its a relative involved?
Actually I like the car example...I would steal the car too lol. You can always return it later I guess.
I was going to respond to some responses on here and I saw this post and my first thought was no, no, no.
It is a do or die situation, you are right about that. However, I never said that anyone is a liar or made them feel bad for what you decide, whether you want to stand on principle or not. I did want to see where that line was. The problem is that you said that rarely do we face such moments and believe it or not, it happens more often than you think.
Althought I don't agree, I do respect your opinion and the conversation that you typed out. However, it is easy to say no when its not you emotionally in the situation. You are allowed to say no, but what do you think will most likely happen then? Do you honestly think that someone would break up because of this?
If it happens a lot in someones life, then I would say that person must make a lot of poor decisions.
What do I think would happen?
I have no idea, my crystal ball isn't showing me anything. What I do know. If you enter into a life where you are forced to live inside the shadows, your life will suck. As a parent you would never approve of or encourage such a decision. If my child went ahead and did such a thing, which knowing my children is unthinkable I would still love them. The spouse however not so much if ever. There is no room in my heart or home for criminals. My children thankfully are long term thinkers. I like to think I own some of that. Getting involved with an illegal is a good way to destroy or at the very least limit your future.
Your intent although perhaps noble, I don't know either by intent or accident does in fact try to force people to breach their principles.
Who do you want your child to wed? A criminal or a law abiding citizen? Love may come from both as can hardship. Love with an illegal will most definitely lead to hardships a lot faster than love with a legal citizen/ resident. As a parent you would do your absolute best to prevent hardship upon your child. Tough love sucks and is painful to both parent and child, but sometimes such as your scenario it is the answer.
That is acceptable. Maybe there is something that they can work out and if not, maybe she or he could go live with them in their country! That would be exciting!
Umm..it's in the illegal immigration forum? Did you vote?
Exactly, what he said.
I am not trying to force anything. What is it with these strong words that you use? It is just supposed to be a friendly poll just to see what people here thought. You are really overthinking this way too much. No attempt was going to be made to justify anything, I just wanted to see how people might react if they thought with their hearts and not their head for once, it is easy to say no, but is it easier or harder to say no when its a relative involved?
Actually I like the car example...I would steal the car too lol. You can always return it later I guess.
Strong words fit the strong scenario.
Thanks for the compliment on the car scenario. Of course you would and so would I. Consequences be damned, a life depends upon it.
Thinking with the heart leads to some pretty major screw ups. The heart seldom weighs consequence against reward.
A good person feels no need to lie, cheat or scam. A good person will find a way to succeed without criminal action.
There is no such thing as an accidental illegal. The closest would be a person brought here as a young child. I don't blame them for violating the law of illegal entry. I do however, blame them for staying after they become adults. Make it right, re-enter legally.
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