Mexicans in Los Angeles Now=Italians in New York Decades ago (education, racist)
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Budweiser: does not apply, I basically do not drink alcohol, period.
Meatloaf: once in a while it hits the spot but I prefer chicken.
Mashed potatoes: again, from time to time.
Country & Western: vastly prefer Celtic music/Smooth Jazz.
BTW: I am Nordic White in appearance whose mother's ancestors fought in the Civil War (presumably for the Confederacy). Father's many times over great uncle was a famous Hungarian revolutionary (same family surname) who was executed in the 16th Century for his troubles.
Amen - I can't even stand Budweiser or any other American beer. I would gladly sip a Corona though, while grilling in the backyard.
Well, thing is, you grew up in a time where italians are already accepted as being an important immigrant group to the united states.
yea, the mafia seems cool now after movies like the Godfather and shows like the Sopranos romanticized what the mafia did.
Back in the days when they were barely immigrating, the attitudes toward the immigrating italians were the same as the views people like YOU hold towards the mexicans today. that is the point of the original post. this is history repeating itself.
Given there are now a few differences.
Italians immigrated legally, because back then, all you basically had to do was show up. Get stamped, change you name so it was easier to pronounce, and voila! American second class citizen! There was no technology to even keep out the very few criminals who did come, bringing the mafia ways with them.
Also, the mafia wasnt that "savage" back then, because the urban landscape was much different back then.
People didn't have easy access to automatic weapons, and the drug trade isn't as intense as it is today.
Now, your throw dirt poor people into neighborhoods that the use and sale of crack has ravaged, and there's a certain way of life there. The inner cities have been neglected for so long, that it has become a rotten environment. The few people who become a part of that life were thrown into that kind of environment, and adapted in the wrong way.
And how do you know Italian immigrants spoke english in public? It is VERY hard to learn a new language!
Most immigrants are DIRT POOR.
They do not have time to go to the local community college and pick up a new language.
They are too busy WORKING two jobs.
How do you propose they learn it? I dont care about your uncle who immigrated from albania and learned english. I dont care about the Taiwanese transfer student. Yeah, well off immigrants are going to learn. But the poor who are truly coming for a better life are too busy surviving to take a damn class.
But their children will grow up speaking english.
I don't think the mafia was ever cool...I don't know about the godfather's accuracy, but I know that the Sopranos (which took place during this past decade) was completely unrealistic in portraying the life of a mobster...many prosecutors and defense attorneys have discussed how this show doesn't portray their lifestyle to an accurate extent...that being said italian and irish mobsters seemed to have a code of decency among their criminal activities...(not killing family members and such)...where as latino gangs display great savagery.
Last edited by whitechocolate86; 04-11-2008 at 05:33 PM..
I don't think the mafia was ever cool...I don't about the godfather's accuracy, but I know that the Sopranos (which took place during this past decade) was completely unrealistic in portraying the life of a mobster...many prosecutors and defense attorneys have discussed how this show doesn't portray their lifestyle to an accurate extent...that being said italian and irish mobsters seemed to have a code of decency among their criminal activities...(not killing family members and such)...where as latino gangs display great savagery.
haha, i write all that, and all you can reply is basically "yeah, latino gangs are savages compared to white gangs."
Look up critical thinking, learn it, use it.
Unlock your tunnel vision, forget your perceptions on illegal immigrants, and really think about it. Think about what you expect of these people and how realistic it is for them to achieve that. think about how you see them, how much of your opinion has been based on what you have heard and seen in the media.
think about how much race and culture MIGHT have to do with the views of many of those anti-immigration. Is it completely impossible that views on race and culture might SLIGHTLY skewer these peoples' attitude towards the immigrants?
haha, i write all that, and all you can reply is basically "yeah, latino gangs are savages compared to white gangs."
Look up critical thinking, learn it, use it.
Unlock your tunnel vision, forget your perceptions on illegal immigrants, and really think about it. Think about what you expect of these people and how realistic it is for them to achieve that. think about how you see them, how much of your opinion has been based on what you have heard and seen in the media.
think about how much race and culture MIGHT have to do with the views of many of those anti-immigration. Is it completely impossible that views on race and culture might SLIGHTLY skewer these peoples' attitude towards the immigrants?
If anything the media goes out of it's way to paint illegal immigrants in a very favorable light. The MSM's 'they are only here doing the jobs Americans won't do' line is at odds with my day to day experiences living right outside a large sanctuary city.
The majority of illegal aliens do not have a HS diploma. Many stopped school in the 7th-9th grades. This is not a situation where a student became discouraged and dropped out halfway through their junior year in HS. That student has a good chance of being able to complete their studies and receive their GED. Someone who left school in the 8th grade does not. The 8th grade educated illegal alien with no job skill is probably still going to be picking peaches for minimum wage 10 years from now. This is a situation where a worker is going to have very little opportunity for upward mobility. If they have a family, that family is always going to be dependent on gov. assistance/ private charity of some sort. We already have too many HS dropouts. It makes no sense to import more.
And I don't care if their children are supposed to achieve middle class status. That is a long way in the future for many. If we cannot adequately provide for poor American citizens NOW, why should we be expected to support the poor of Mexico? (I am using Mexico as a example as the are the most egregious abuser of the US) The government of Mexico is the cause of these people's problems, not the US, although it is seldom recognized as such. We simply cannot endlessly serve as a pressure relief valve for the corrupt Mexican gov. Some of the richest people in the world live in Mexico, yet I am supposed to pay their citizen's medical bills? The illegal aliens from Mexico need to return home. The Mexican gov. needs to deal with it's poor instead of leaving them on our doorstep. Immigrants need to come here lawfully and according to our needs, not theirs.
haha, i write all that, and all you can reply is basically "yeah, latino gangs are savages compared to white gangs."
Look up critical thinking, learn it, use it.
Unlock your tunnel vision, forget your perceptions on illegal immigrants, and really think about it. Think about what you expect of these people and how realistic it is for them to achieve that. think about how you see them, how much of your opinion has been based on what you have heard and seen in the media.
think about how much race and culture MIGHT have to do with the views of many of those anti-immigration. Is it completely impossible that views on race and culture might SLIGHTLY skewer these peoples' attitude towards the immigrants?
Frankly; the presence of large numbers of in this case; illegal immigrants from Mexico in particular, draws increased scrutiny onto any brown skinned person------of any race/ethnicity.
think about how much race and culture MIGHT have to do with the views of many of those anti-immigration. Is it completely impossible that views on race and culture might SLIGHTLY skewer these peoples' attitude towards the immigrants?
Sure it's "possible".(and I think you mean 'skew'....since 'skewer' is more a subject for barbecues).. It's possible that some people are inclined to dislike illegal immigrants because of their race.
But my wife shares the race of MOST of them...and so do her sisters. Some of the 'in-laws' even share their birthplace.....and so do a few of MY in-laws. And all THESE people are unhappy with illegal immigrants as well...and it can hardly be because of 'race'..can it?
How about MY theory...that these people are dissatisfied with illegals because of WHAT THEY DO...not for "who they are".
Do you think it's possible to be annoyed with illegal immigration, and NOT be a racist? Even a LITTLE bit?
After all, not ALL black people are happy with gang-bangers and 'gangsta thugs', are they? And you don't suppose, that every white person is a fan of skinhead bullies and Nazis...do you? Isn't it possible to DISLIKE these things, regardless of one's race?
Am I the sole poster residing in Los Angeles, amongst genuine gangs and illegals, with friends of all persuasions, Latino, Italian-American, etc.? Were any others within this forum of similar ilk, he or she could chime in with the following correlation.
Illegals have precious little in common with past waves of legal immigrants, all of whom prided themselves of becoming American, speaking our English language, and abiding by our, in most instances of comparison, superior and fair laws. To even sidle illegals cladistically next to legal immigrants/naturalized citizens is grievous insult to the latter.
The illegals I live amongst have no regard for any American laws, having broken a biggie to get here. They retain misogynistic ways from "home," are xenophobic to anyone not from their "home country," and incubate the gangs here with their endless vendettas which they consider "normal." They change all signage into their specific foreign language with no English alongside, drive recklessly and without licensing, and are repositories of hatred to everyone not "just like them."
What so saddens me about the posts here from the pro-illegals is that by default they are resoundingly pro-criminal behavior, and they are so intensely anti-American. They appear to really despise working class and middle class Americans. Perhaps they're all so young that not a one has payed taxes which here in L.A. go into a vortex of helping lawbreakers instead of our fellow citizens, whether born or naturalized, in need.
Bank-robbers are only trying to help themselves and their families, as are illegals, so don't equate the latter with anything but innate criminality. I myself have ridden, injured from a car wreck that an illegal caused, in an ambulance that couldn't find an ER with room, since illegals use them for minor complaints. I've helped a friend with gynocological cancer at a county hospital, turned away for months at a time because her cancer coincided with the specialty of that servicing hundreds of eight-and-a-half-months pregnant illegals, whom we saw each and every time: they get it all for free, poor U.S. citizens have to pay the tens of thousands at county. I have had my nice dogs shot at by illegals. I do live in a neighborhood that hosts double homicides from gangs, because the demographic changed.
I am guessing then that the pro-criminality crowd doesn't have a great deal of life experience dealing with the consequences of illegals. That's the only way I can reconcile these otherwise intelligent posters being so heartless to Americans.
I don't think the mafia was ever cool...I don't know about the godfather's accuracy, but I know that the Sopranos (which took place during this past decade) was completely unrealistic in portraying the life of a mobster...many prosecutors and defense attorneys have discussed how this show doesn't portray their lifestyle to an accurate extent...that being said italian and irish mobsters seemed to have a code of decency among their criminal activities...(not killing family members and such)...where as latino gangs display great savagery.
You might want to look up what the people of the time thought of the Italian Mafia and their "code of decency". Part of the reason for the Immigration Act of 1924 was to keep Italians
(especially Southern Italians) out. The people of that time had had a bellyfull of the "code of decency". Please check it out. It's fun and fascinating reading. You won't be bored.
If anything the media goes out of it's way to paint illegal immigrants in a very favorable light. The MSM's 'they are only here doing the jobs Americans won't do' line is at odds with my day to day experiences living right outside a large sanctuary city.
The majority of illegal aliens do not have a HS diploma. Many stopped school in the 7th-9th grades. This is not a situation where a student became discouraged and dropped out halfway through their junior year in HS. That student has a good chance of being able to complete their studies and receive their GED. Someone who left school in the 8th grade does not. The 8th grade educated illegal alien with no job skill is probably still going to be picking peaches for minimum wage 10 years from now. This is a situation where a worker is going to have very little opportunity for upward mobility. If they have a family, that family is always going to be dependent on gov. assistance/ private charity of some sort. We already have too many HS dropouts. It makes no sense to import more.
And I don't care if their children are supposed to achieve middle class status. That is a long way in the future for many. If we cannot adequately provide for poor American citizens NOW, why should we be expected to support the poor of Mexico? (I am using Mexico as a example as the are the most egregious abuser of the US) The government of Mexico is the cause of these people's problems, not the US, although it is seldom recognized as such. We simply cannot endlessly serve as a pressure relief valve for the corrupt Mexican gov. Some of the richest people in the world live in Mexico, yet I am supposed to pay their citizen's medical bills? The illegal aliens from Mexico need to return home. The Mexican gov. needs to deal with it's poor instead of leaving them on our doorstep. Immigrants need to come here lawfully and according to our needs, not theirs.
If you take out the word Mexico and substitute Italy or Ireland this could be identical to what was said in the 1850's to 1920's. (Also take out the word media). It dosen't mean your wrong necessarily but it's fascinating how everything repeats itself in cycles.
You might want to look up what the people of the time thought of the Italian Mafia and their "code of decency". Part of the reason for the Immigration Act of 1924 was to keep Italians
(especially Southern Italians) out. The people of that time had had a bellyfull of the "code of decency". Please check it out. It's fun and fascinating reading. You won't be bored.
You just supplied more reason to close/lock our borders to illegal immigration.
As for Italians in general; once here, they were forced to become American------a significant number of them returned to Italy since they could not survive here in the USA
Take also into consideration that when the Mafia became big------Prohibition was in force.
Had the ban on alcohol sales been 30 years earlier the Irish might have been the 'Mob'-------30 years later it could have been Mexicans due to their country's proximity to the USA.
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