why do many democrats and hispanic groups oppose increasing immigration law enforcement? (legal, biased)
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I did work yesterday for a lady that migrated here legally from Canada. She is livid at the idea of given legal status, after she had to jump through so many hoops, and pay a lot of money to become a legal American citizen.
Pretty sure there is something in the 1986 amnesty Reagan passed, that there would never be another amnesty. So you see, we Americans were promised 1986 would be the only and the last, so there is a law that says there will not be another. So, the pro illegal alien side of the picture has no leg to stand on, as it is written into law right now.
Now, we have to get the whole USA on the same page, and start enforcing the laws made so this stuff was not suppose to happen.
ITIN as well as percentage increase of taxpayers, coupled with how many illegal immigrants there currently are and how many left or entered. We do have a good idea of how many illegal immigrants there are. Roughly 12 million. Also, the data states Hispanic, which if we assume is the newest legalized group (seeing how they comprise the latest immigrant boom), we see that second generation are fluent. First generation, which may or not be illegal are less fluent yet nonetheless speaking English.
Actually the census is pretty reliable.
You keep mentioning “the data.” Care to share said data -- such as the number of illegals who use an ITIN and claim the maximum exemptions. Or, the number of illegals who use a stolen SSN, and create huge problems for their victims. Or, the number of illegals who are paid in cash; thus, pay NO taxes. Or, the number of illegals who collect welfare, WIC, subsidized housing, free breakfast/lunch/ESL classes at the taxpayers’ expense. Or, the number of illegals who have received “free” organ transplants, kidney dialysis, intensive care, etc., to the tune of billions annually. Or, the number of illegals who have lived in this country in excess of 10 years who can’t speak a word of English. Or, the number of illegals who have attended our schools since elementary school, yet still need ESL classes in high school, or graduate speaking limited English. Or, the number of illegals who are currently incarcerated for committing violent crimes. Or, the number of illegals who have fled prosecution for crimes committed in their countries of origin.
Since you claim we have an accurate accounting of the number of illegals who are in this country; and you claim the “vast majority” are not violent criminals; and you claim most are using ITIN’s and paying taxes; and you claim they are fluent in English; you should be able to prove it.
Please don’t quote figures from illegal alien special interest groups, or data pertaining to “legal” immigrants. We are also not discussing “Hispanics.” We are only discussing illegal aliens; although we all realize the vast majority are in fact Mexican. Can you produce “accurate” data to substantiate your claims?
BTW, ‘exactly’ how many illegals entered this country during the past year, and how many left?
i know that many democrats and and liberals and hispanic groups want to end illegal immigration, (something that many republicans and conservatives also want to do) but why do many of them not like any increased immigration law enforcement?
why do they not like e-verify? i read that it is about 90% effective but many democratic politicians and hispanic groups (nclr maldef lulac) don't like it. why?
why do many democratic politicians and hispanic groups not like nearly every increased immigration law enforcement act? they dont like the secure communities program, 287g program, save act, no-match rule, clear act and many many
is there something else behind this dissent?
its not just democrats some republicans too, its no surprise that these hispanics dont want security they want as many mexicans in as possible-real talk
You keep mentioning “the data.” Care to share said data -- such as the number of illegals who use an ITIN and claim the maximum exemptions. Or, the number of illegals who use a stolen SSN, and create huge problems for their victims. Or, the number of illegals who are paid in cash; thus, pay NO taxes. Or, the number of illegals who collect welfare, WIC, subsidized housing, free breakfast/lunch/ESL classes at the taxpayers’ expense. Or, the number of illegals who have received “free” organ transplants, kidney dialysis, intensive care, etc., to the tune of billions annually. Or, the number of illegals who have lived in this country in excess of 10 years who can’t speak a word of English. Or, the number of illegals who have attended our schools since elementary school, yet still need ESL classes in high school, or graduate speaking limited English. Or, the number of illegals who are currently incarcerated for committing violent crimes. Or, the number of illegals who have fled prosecution for crimes committed in their countries of origin.
The Resaon Foundation is best described as libertarian, so if you will, the slant is more against nationalism. Their numbers come from the National Research Council, which is an arm of the National Academy of the Sciences.
We do know for a fact that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are not felons.
Look, this is the info. We know that SS has bought time, I showed you a recent report on that. I stated converse arguments on illegal immigration. So now it really is your turn. But then again, you rely on heuristics and simply soundbites. I don't expect much.
Since you claim we have an accurate accounting of the number of illegals who are in this country; and you claim the “vast majority” are not violent criminals; and you claim most are using ITIN’s and paying taxes; and you claim they are fluent in English; you should be able to prove it.
See above. Please show proof of the converse.
Please don’t quote figures from illegal alien special interest groups, or data pertaining to “legal” immigrants. We are also not discussing “Hispanics.” We are only discussing illegal aliens; although we all realize the vast majority are in fact Mexican. Can you produce “accurate” data to substantiate your claims?
Hispanics comprise 80% of illegal immigrants, thus trends that occur in the Hispanic community of recent legal migrants are likely to show in illegal immigrant communities as well. So yes I can continue to use Hispanics to be a sort of rough bellwether.
BTW, in the past you and others remarked how Pew Hispanic Foundation was "pro-illegal"...so if an institute like Pew is "pro-illegal" what is "acceptable". To be perfectly honest, it's to only your subjective opinion...so with that said I frankly feel that anything that other's post will not meet your criteria.
BTW, ‘exactly’ how many illegals entered this country during the past year, and how many left?
Look, instead of being a typical nativist and spouting the same arguments that "they took our jobs" and "they don't want to learn English" show these things concretely.
This is what is wrong with our nation. People essentially not getting a grasp of the larger social picture. I feel that you simply see the headlines that used to be on here "illegal kills teen, etc..." and feel that this is the majority of illegal immigrants.
You feel that if they somehow magically left, life would be better. That our economy would improve. If we spent more on the border that our standard of living will dramatically improve. It won't. The reason is because that people, like you, would rather see expensive border projects and crackdowns instead of money being spent on schools, health, and infrastructure. We will still continue to see outsourcing, maybe at a faster rate. We will still see drugs enter into our country...if there is a demand there will still be supply. We may see increased violence on the border (recall the Berlin Wall had riots at its inception in the 1950s). The best way is to encourage legal immigration. However, people like you feel threatened (they don't "deserve" it, they are "criminals", they are poor, etc.)
It's interested that you ask for facts. I've stated that many are from lectures, whom I presented the names of the proffessors and which university. Yet your facts are again "common sense" (wich means subjective intuition suiting the needs of this anti-(il)legal immigration debate).
You claim that illegal immigration hurts middle class Americans...yet show no proof. I pointed out a Harvard proffessor that stated that most likely those affected are the unskilled workers of our nation, those that society tossed away. You claim that they have higher crime rates. Yet I showed that Hispanics (meaning regardless of legal status) have roughly the same incarceration average as the national average (and Hispanics account for the roughly 80% of illegal immigrants). You can search in my previous posts for that if you so desire, there you will find links.
So even when proof is provided to you, you decide that it somehow doesn't relate and thus is not relevant.
Look, instead of being a typical nativist and spouting the same arguments that "they took our jobs" and "they don't want to learn English" show these things concretely.
This is what is wrong with our nation. People essentially not getting a grasp of the larger social picture. I feel that you simply see the headlines that used to be on here "illegal kills teen, etc..." and feel that this is the majority of illegal immigrants.
You feel that if they somehow magically left, life would be better. That our economy would improve. If we spent more on the border that our standard of living will dramatically improve. It won't. The reason is because that people, like you, would rather see expensive border projects and crackdowns instead of money being spent on schools, health, and infrastructure. We will still continue to see outsourcing, maybe at a faster rate. We will still see drugs enter into our country...if there is a demand there will still be supply. We may see increased violence on the border (recall the Berlin Wall had riots at its inception in the 1950s). The best way is to encourage legal immigration. However, people like you feel threatened (they don't "deserve" it, they are "criminals", they are poor, etc.)
It's interested that you ask for facts. I've stated that many are from lectures, whom I presented the names of the proffessors and which university. Yet your facts are again "common sense" (wich means subjective intuition suiting the needs of this anti-(il)legal immigration debate).
You claim that illegal immigration hurts middle class Americans...yet show no proof. I pointed out a Harvard proffessor that stated that most likely those affected are the unskilled workers of our nation, those that society tossed away. You claim that they have higher crime rates. Yet I showed that Hispanics (meaning regardless of legal status) have roughly the same incarceration average as the national average (and Hispanics account for the roughly 80% of illegal immigrants). You can search in my previous posts for that if you so desire, there you will find links.
So even when proof is provided to you, you decide that it somehow doesn't relate and thus is not relevant.
How much "proof" do you need? Have you been inside an ER, school or near a Home Depot parking lot?
Seriously, if they don't speak English there is a very good chance, say 90%? You tell me what sounds about right since speaking English is one part of becoming a Citizen, that they are here Illegally.
In any of the above they are taking away jobs, stealing social services or abusing the 14th. Why are you so ok with that?
How much "proof" do you need? Have you been inside an ER, school or near a Home Depot parking lot?
In any of the above they are taking away jobs, stealing social services or abusing the 14th. Why are you so ok with that?
First off, just observing people is not proof. You need a larger sample size than "Home Depot" parking lot, you would actually have to interact with them, you would need to account for variables on why they are speaking Spanish at that exact time (other Spanish speakers in the area, is it a highly Hispanic area where clients feel more comfortable speaking Spanish). You just proved my point in people making blanket statements based on a few personal observations.
The second part of your statement I erased. It made no sense, ironically.
How does one "steal" a job? Also, people in West Virginia should stop stealing my federal tax dollars (CA shoulders more money federally than West Virginia). With that said, should people not obtain social services since they don't pay as much? Thus, West Virginia should recieve less services than, say, an illegal immigrant who pays taxes in California.
So even when proof is provided to you, you decide that it somehow doesn't relate and thus is not relevant.
A MOST annoying habit...I couldn't agree more. We DO have a few posters on here who simply WILL NOT entertain the notion that anything could be 'relevant', unless it fits their agenda. Who simply WILL not listen to others, because they already have the answers, and therefore reason that "others" are not worth listening to, only 'lecturing' to.
I can't recall who they are at the moment...but I KNOW some of them are nearby...and may even be right here, as we speak.
Look, instead of being a typical nativist and spouting the same arguments that "they took our jobs" and "they don't want to learn English" show these things concretely.
This is what is wrong with our nation. People essentially not getting a grasp of the larger social picture. I feel that you simply see the headlines that used to be on here "illegal kills teen, etc..." and feel that this is the majority of illegal immigrants.
You feel that if they somehow magically left, life would be better. That our economy would improve. If we spent more on the border that our standard of living will dramatically improve. It won't. The reason is because that people, like you, would rather see expensive border projects and crackdowns instead of money being spent on schools, health, and infrastructure. We will still continue to see outsourcing, maybe at a faster rate. We will still see drugs enter into our country...if there is a demand there will still be supply. We may see increased violence on the border (recall the Berlin Wall had riots at its inception in the 1950s). The best way is to encourage legal immigration. However, people like you feel threatened (they don't "deserve" it, they are "criminals", they are poor, etc.)
It's interested that you ask for facts. I've stated that many are from lectures, whom I presented the names of the proffessors and which university. Yet your facts are again "common sense" (wich means subjective intuition suiting the needs of this anti-(il)legal immigration debate).
You claim that illegal immigration hurts middle class Americans...yet show no proof. I pointed out a Harvard proffessor that stated that most likely those affected are the unskilled workers of our nation, those that society tossed away. You claim that they have higher crime rates. Yet I showed that Hispanics (meaning regardless of legal status) have roughly the same incarceration average as the national average (and Hispanics account for the roughly 80% of illegal immigrants). You can search in my previous posts for that if you so desire, there you will find links.
So even when proof is provided to you, you decide that it somehow doesn't relate and thus is not relevant.
None of the above matters: illegal aliens are criminals and need to leave the USA-----------and, more and more Americans are waking up to the menace of those losers.
How much "proof" do you need? Have you been inside an ER, school or near a Home Depot parking lot?
Seriously, if they don't speak English there is a very good chance, say 90%? You tell me what sounds about right since speaking English is one part of becoming a Citizen, that they are here Illegally.
In any of the above they are taking away jobs, stealing social services or abusing the 14th. Why are you so ok with that?
Apparently, it's up to you to 'prove' these things....names, ages, addresses, etc. Otherwise, no problem is occurring. And if you eventually PROVE that these 'bad' things are happening, and if you can PROVE it's because illegals are here..then the answer to that is to "let them stay", anyway.
Either way, THEY stay, and YOU lose (although you're REALLY not losing...because illegal immigration benefits ALL of us..even if we THINK it doesn't).
Might as well give it up, at this point. There's no way to win this argument.
A MOST annoying habit...I couldn't agree more. We DO have a few posters on here who simply WILL NOT entertain the notion that anything could be 'relevant', unless it fits their agenda. Who simply WILL not listen to others, because they already have the answers, and therefore reason that "others" are not worth listening to, only 'lecturing' to.
I can't recall who they are at the moment...but I KNOW some of them are nearby...and may even be right here, as we speak.
VERY annoying people....I agree with you.
Well, it happens all the time with lots of different people, esp. those that well, kind of remind me of McDonalds...not only in name, but also in substance (full of words, much like how McDonald's is full of food, but not much in content and substance...like how McDonald's is pretty much filler.)
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