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Old 11-16-2009, 09:36 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,556,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
It is just accelerating so fast, now. It is a parasitic virus, spreading North. Costing more lives and grief, than any H1N1.
....Involving a lot more anger, false compassion, condescencion, rationalization, and a WHOLE lot bigger 'guilt trip' than H1N1, too......(at least, I'm not aware of any significant 'pro-swine flu' lobby....nor have I heard many people say "we shouldn't take swine flu seriously, since disease just 'happens' ")....
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:46 AM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,318,817 times
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Originally Posted by cjester View Post
The middle class is shrinking because manufacturing jobs, assembly line jobs, office jobs, and technical jobs have been on the downside for decades. In the 50’s it took 100 men to build a car today no more that 7. Office automation has gotten rid of all kinds of clerical jobs. In addition other countries have absorbed whatever manufacturing jobs there was. The bottom line is competition and making a profit that is what business is all about. People have to realize that worldkompetition is real, and there is no use of blaming on the undocumented.
Well since outsourcing is part of the problem then all the more reason to keep jobs that can't be outsourced for Americans, don't you think?
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:37 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,907,380 times
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Because that isn't possible. Someone is going to be on the losing end and in this case I'd rather it be the illegal aliens rather than our own citizens. Aferall, this country belongs to our citizens, not illegal foreigners. Laws are in place also so that we don't become a morally bankrupt country run by those without any scruples because of their own selfish interests.
Morally bankrupted? Is it not morally bankrupt to chastize the weakest segment of the population? It is. However, morality is subjective, we'll set that aside (Actually, it's interesting that a measure of emotional intelligence is how to interpret such situations. Younger children often follow the argument that if it is against the law, it's wrong. As we get older, we typically hold views in a less authoritarian manner).

Our country does belong to its citizens, that's why it's best to find ways in order to perserve it. Having laws that promote education and work are better than those that don't. Essentially, that is what it boils down to.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:45 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,318,817 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Morally bankrupted? Is it not morally bankrupt to chastize the weakest segment of the population? It is. However, morality is subjective, we'll set that aside (Actually, it's interesting that a measure of emotional intelligence is how to interpret such situations. Younger children often follow the argument that if it is against the law, it's wrong. As we get older, we typically hold views in a less authoritarian manner).

Our country does belong to its citizens, that's why it's best to find ways in order to perserve it. Having laws that promote education and work are better than those that don't. Essentially, that is what it boils down to.
No it isn't being morally bankrupt chastizing the so-called weakest segment of our population who are illegal aliens.

Maybe as you got older you decided that laws aren't that important but most Americans don't think that way and thank god for that!

Incorrect! Our country does belong to its citizens. The only way we will preserve this country is keep it that way and THAT is what it boils down to. Yes, I am all for education for our citizens and legal immigrants and booting out those who are here illegally instead of paying for anything for them.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:57 PM
 
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No it isn't being morally bankrupt chastizing the so-called weakest segment of our population who are illegal aliens.

Many would argue that chastizing the weakest segments of our population is wrong. It depends on how you view the situation. If you think in a rigid framework, then illegal = illegal. However, if you look at the ENTIRETY, then you realize that it's not quite that simple.

Maybe as you got older you decided that laws aren't that important but most Americans don't think that way and thank god for that!

No, this is actually a determination of how people abstractly reason. The older you get, the better one should be able to abstractly solve problems. Hence why most people speed and rationalize speeding. Hence why police officers do selectively enforce certain laws. If you think about it, laws are created by abstract thinking (since there is no initial framework).

Incorrect! Our country does belong to its citizens. The only way we will preserve this country is keep it that way and THAT is what it boils down to. Yes, I am all for education for our citizens and legal immigrants and booting out those who are here illegally instead of paying for anything for them.

Denial of education for illegal immigrants would negatively impact severely populations of legal residents who live in the same communities of illegal immigrants. Or even simply refusal to acknowledge they exist and thus decrease funding will increase overcrowding and hence decrease educational attainment for those citizens who are in the same communities as illegal immigrants. Also, it would cost us more in welfare (their legal children, thus not obtaining the proper education). Poverty is cyclical.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:58 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,907,380 times
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Well since outsourcing is part of the problem then all the more reason to keep jobs that can't be outsourced for Americans, don't you think?
Automation is probably a bigger threat...
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:02 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,907,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Illegal aliens kept the "going rate" in construction trades, stagnant for about 10 years, while the cost of living in the early to mid 90's skyrocketed.
From the late 90's the "going rates" have slowly back peddled to what they were in the 1970' and 80's.

Now, illegal aliens are threatening more than just California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. The rest of the country, is seeing what I have seen over the last 23 years. It is just accelerating so fast, now. It is a parasitic virus, spreading North. Costing more lives and grief, than any H1N1.

We actually don't have reason to believe illegal immigrants have kept wages stagnant. In SoCal, the average construction worker is making between 35-40k a year. The typical education of a construction worker is a high school diploma.

However, construction is an entire industry. Thus, the data includes managers, specialty trades, as well as less specialized professions.

I could see that lower end jobs have taken a hit, however, the industry as a whole most likely has not...
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,134,028 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Morally bankrupted? Is it not morally bankrupt to chastize the weakest segment of the population? It is. However, morality is subjective, we'll set that aside (Actually, it's interesting that a measure of emotional intelligence is how to interpret such situations. Younger children often follow the argument that if it is against the law, it's wrong. As we get older, we typically hold views in a less authoritarian manner).

Our country does belong to its citizens, that's why it's best to find ways in order to perserve it. Having laws that promote education and work are better than those that don't. Essentially, that is what it boils down to.
Well; it is not morally bankrupt to chastize criminals----------and, illegal aliens certainly qualify as such.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:38 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,318,817 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
No it isn't being morally bankrupt chastizing the so-called weakest segment of our population who are illegal aliens.

Many would argue that chastizing the weakest segments of our population is wrong. It depends on how you view the situation. If you think in a rigid framework, then illegal = illegal. However, if you look at the ENTIRETY, then you realize that it's not quite that simple.

Maybe as you got older you decided that laws aren't that important but most Americans don't think that way and thank god for that!

No, this is actually a determination of how people abstractly reason. The older you get, the better one should be able to abstractly solve problems. Hence why most people speed and rationalize speeding. Hence why police officers do selectively enforce certain laws. If you think about it, laws are created by abstract thinking (since there is no initial framework).

Incorrect! Our country does belong to its citizens. The only way we will preserve this country is keep it that way and THAT is what it boils down to. Yes, I am all for education for our citizens and legal immigrants and booting out those who are here illegally instead of paying for anything for them.

Denial of education for illegal immigrants would negatively impact severely populations of legal residents who live in the same communities of illegal immigrants. Or even simply refusal to acknowledge they exist and thus decrease funding will increase overcrowding and hence decrease educational attainment for those citizens who are in the same communities as illegal immigrants. Also, it would cost us more in welfare (their legal children, thus not obtaining the proper education). Poverty is cyclical.
Why would you refer to law breakers as the weakest segmant of our society if not to try and illicit sympathy for them? Call a spade a spade. They are illegal aliens. WTH do you mean by weak?

No need to educate illegal aliens just deport em as our laws demand.
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:41 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,318,817 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Automation is probably a bigger threat...
Automation, outsourcing both putting Americans out of jobs. As I said, all the more reason to retain the jobs that can't be automated or outsourced for Americans.
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