Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Piedmont, I think that's what we're all afraid of. We definitely do *not* want that to happen to east TN.
As someone who witnessed this change in central NC over the last 20 years, I would say that there are already many signs here in TN that suggest significant change in this region over the next decades. However, the smaller size of Knoxville (and Chattanooga) may help it from becoming part of a greater interstate metro/suburban blob (even though we have the interstates!). Although it was hard to imagine Charlotte as an extension of Atlanta 20+ years ago---not so difficult now.
Bravo! Saaaaaalute! Hear Hear! MbMouse, your post should be required reading for ANYONE looking to relocate ANYWHERE in the US, and trying to make the new place like where they moved from...then ceaselessly carping and b****ing about what the new area needs that they had 'back home'!
One of the main reasons I love the Knoxville/TN forums is due to the plain-spoken down to earth humbleness of the folks there...and this is no exception...you managed to cram more common-sense thinking into ONE POST than I have seen in some 20-30 page threads combined...you should market your post to all corners of CD---just remove the Knoxville references, and fill in the names of the other places folks are leaving/moving to---it would end a lot of discussion and plain ol' dumb questions, and actually (gasp!) MAKE PEOPLE THINK (what a novel concept LOL)!
I'd rep ya more if I could. Your post should be required reading before you even enter the Knox forum, but we know that won't happen, and most people don't read the stickies with relocation help, nor do they use the "search" function, but continue to ask the same exhausting, repetitious questions, over...and over....and over....
I'd rep ya more if I could. Your post should be required reading before you even enter the Knox forum, but we know that won't happen, and most people don't read the stickies with relocation help, nor do they use the "search" function, but continue to ask the same exhausting, repetitious questions, over...and over....and over....
You sum it up well.
Kudos to you!!
The funny thing is that MBMouse has written posts like this before. So has LauraC, me and several others.
You're right. A lot of people don't "search."
I use to be really freaked out by the thought of people coming up here that would whine about everything and try to change things. I finally realized that the ones that don't like the area don't stay. It's not like Florida, where the transients overwhelmed the natives.
Sad to say, but the recession has changed a lot of things, too.
If God's will allows my family and I to relocate to Knoxville we shall embrace Knoxville for being Knoxville. I wouldn't want East TN to be like Michigan, if that were the case why would I leave here to begin with? I like Knox just the way it is, that's why we're considering living there. People find it easy to find fault with any city, but, to me, the pros outwiegh the cons by a long shot in Knoxville. As said, Mayberry does not exist. But with the surrounding mountains, lakes, river, woods, mild climate, down to earth residents who don't look down on other cities, low taxes and Volunteer football, I might just move from Mayberry to Knoxville!
Right. People try to make a new location just like the place they escaped. Ridiculous. And you know what? Money can buy alot of things but it can't buy "nice." Nice people, a sense of community, is worth alot.
Thanks everyone, but I just call it like I see and am honest with folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piedmont
As someone who witnessed this change in central NC over the last 20 years, I would say that there are already many signs here in TN that suggest significant change in this region over the next decades. However, the smaller size of Knoxville (and Chattanooga) may help it from becoming part of a greater interstate metro/suburban blob (even though we have the interstates!). Although it was hard to imagine Charlotte as an extension of Atlanta 20+ years ago---not so difficult now.
Change and growth is inevitable anywhere. It is HOW it changes becomes the issue. I personally think if you change one place because you want it just like another with a cheaper price tag, forget it, than you do end up with another FL, AZ, NC and now everyone is unhappy. If you allow an area to maintain it's eventual growth pattern without too much influence, you can maintain it's uniqueness while making room for others. THAT can be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNKY
If God's will allows my family and I to relocate to Knoxville we shall embrace Knoxville for being Knoxville. I wouldn't want East TN to be like Michigan, if that were the case why would I leave here to begin with? I like Knox just the way it is, that's why we're considering living there. People find it easy to find fault with any city, but, to me, the pros outwiegh the cons by a long shot in Knoxville. As said, Mayberry does not exist. But with the surrounding mountains, lakes, river, woods, mild climate, down to earth residents who don't look down on other cities, low taxes and Volunteer football, I might just move from Mayberry to Knoxville!
This nice person, I think, is the voice of the many who are wanting to move here and the why's of that move is the reason they are doing it right. I honestly believe it is the reasons behind your move that will make it that much more of a success and you will be happy here. Eyes wide open and accepting are very big keys.
I agree with a lot of this, but I have a few quibbles, and let me stress that I speak only of Knoxville (and most of the time when I say "you," I'm refering to the people you're talking about making the complaints):
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
Ok, here is my take on this kind of line of conversation (no one in particular here) that concerns me.
There seems to be people who were "priced" right out of where they live and are looking to move. There home owners insurance went through the roof as did their taxes, their jobs cut back or gone. So now they start looking at other parts of the country. What do they look for? Low property prices, low taxes, low insurance rates, no state income tax. Boom! They have now pin pointed TN. If they want very low chance of weather incidences, now they pin point East and North East TN. They fall in LOVE with this concept. They have it in their mind that they want a 3 bedroom, two bath, two car garage with a stream running through their two acres that have a unobstructed view of the Smokies. Oh, and they can find that for under $200K......right? And just for good measure, they are going to be smart and rent for a while first, so they want a 3/2 with basement or garage, fenced yard, bring Fido and Fluffy and rent month to month for $600 a month so they can save for that house down payment. And they want that rental in the school zone where they want to eventually buy.
Then they come to look around (if they are smart) and their senses become affronted. Statements start coming: (all general, again I am not really quoting anyone in particular, more of a conglomeration here) "Cars in yards...oh my!, someone should make them get rid of those cars, I don't want to see that." "Where are the fresh seafood stores?" Where are the organic stores?" "Can you give me directions to Cabellas?" " What, I can't shop at Publix anymore? I like that store." "Why aren't there more upscale night spots?" " Where is the diversity?"
"Some of these roads are windy and dangerous" "Why is that mobile home next to that very nice house?" "That mobile home has the best view of the Smokies, what a shame, the land is ruined" " People here talk kind of funny, why can't I understand them?, they MUST be uneducated."
"Oh, I found the best house, but I could smell cows, I could never live there!"
"I need a gated community, I hear there is meth everywhere!" " I can not believe all the stray dogs I see around!, some one should make them confine those dogs and make sure they don't bark after 9:00pm."
"These downtowns should offer more, why don't they?" " I am looking for a job in my field but I laughed at the amount they offered me, it would be a HUGE pay cut and I can't believe I waited 2 months for that interview, I am worth more than that."
I agree those complaints, on here, are common and absurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
I hate to be so blunt, but here it is: Yes, the population is majority white middle class
I'm fairly certain that is true of essentially everywhere in the United States...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
, mostly blue collar. Yes, we have VERY poor people here and you know what, they are nice too! And their families have been here for 10 generations or more.
First of all I don't know what you're trying to say with the 10 generations or more statement. Secondly I'm fairly certain, again, like the rest of the country, Knoxville has wealthy areas and poorer areas. If you're complaining that you live next to a mobile home, are you saying that in a different city you'd be living in a mansion? That is such nonsense, if you have money and don't like "blue collar" people then you're not going to be forced to socialize with them. If you don't like blue collar people and find yourself inexplicably surrounded by them, to paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, you just might be blue collar (yourself). I know I have friends who were born and raised in West Knoxville who have had less contact with "blue collar" folks than I have, and I grew up in the country club capital of America from third grade until college. Just nonsense, people traditionally live among people of similar socioeconmic statuses and sociallize with who they wish to sociallize with--that goes for everywhere in America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
No, we do not have every store chain represented here. We are a land lock state, you will not get fresh seafood you are used to. We are in the foot hills of a major mountain range, the roads are not straight and flat and they never will be.
Actually you can get fresh seafood in Knoxville, though it's not especially cheap nor as readily available as elsewhere, but I see it here. And Knoxville has a heck of a lot of chain stores. Macy's is even in the planning stage of coming in and some much bigger cities don't have them. Costco and Publix would be nice, but come on, outside of NY & CA everyone shops at Super Walmart for their groceries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
Wages are lower here, period. Sales tax is high and yes, that includes groceries, the state has to get money to run from somewhere.
If you want the property taxes to be left low, don't complain about what you want to see changed because if you get that, yours and everyone else's taxes will be raised.
Very true, but that hurts renters. It really does hurt the bottom 99.98% most though, since property tax would impact the ultra-rich (multi-million dollar estates) disproportionately more than the 99.98% of us that aren't. They get off without that. Don't know about you, but I'd rather see Haslam, Clayton and their buddies paying a few dozen thousand more a year than having to pay an extra 3% sales tax myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
People here have a Southern accent, it does not mean they are not educated. A slower pace of life does not mean simple minded. Bluegrass and Country living IS culture, just not one you might be interested in, doesn't mean it's not here.
Living here 3 years I've only met one person that I had trouble understanding from his southern accent. He was a AAA tow truck driver from Clarksville. Other than that, never, and I'd say I have contact with several hundred people a month.
Poor grammar would be an indicator of lack of intellegence, but an accent? Again, nonsense. One of the thickest, understandable, country accents I've heard was from a retired Harvard Professor from Middle Tennessee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
Yes, you can own a house here under $100k, but it will not be a 5 minute commute to your job and be in the best school district. Nor will it be a 3/2, 2 car garage on two acres with a stream (heck there might be 5 of those properties per county) that comes with a building guarantee. Yes, you will pay more, lots more for those kind of properties unless you get very, very lucky and you are willing to do the work to fix them.
Again, what would they expect ANYWHERE in America? In no way would that be exclusive to East TN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
We did not adhere to the International Building Codes until recently. People have animals here, farm animals that smell and pets.Yes, pot belly pigs and goats can be concidered pets. No, it will not be easy to rent with pets.
These are just some of the realities of life here. If these upset you, then this part of the country may not be right for you.
Again, I grew up in America's country club capital and people owned pot bellied pigs as pets there too. It wasn't common, but it was legal. And again, if you can afford to live in an association that prevents "farm animals" elsewhere, you can in Knoxville too--if you can't here, chances are you can't elsewhere either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
Oh and they most asked question it seems: "Will I fit in here?" The answer is TOTALLY up to you. If you like it here because of the way it IS and you are open to accepting people the way they are, than yes, you will fit in.
I think "will I fit in here?" is a valid question, and your answer could be applied to anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
If you like it here only because of cost of living and the ability to buy twice the house than where you came from for the same $ and you want every amenity you had before you moved here still, than no, you probably won't fit in because you will be disappointed and for some reason blame that on the people here.
Again, what ammenities is Knoxville really lacking? Prior to now I lived in the suburbs of two of America's most prominent Metropolitain Cities (NYC & Miami) and while yes there are more diverse recreational opportunities there, Knoxville has most everything in a more limited sense. If you have money to spend you can easily spend thousands A DAY in Knoxville. Knoxville has "$80+ per meal for two" restaurants, spas, and $12k+ private schools for children. Knoxville has bars that can run you into the hundreds for a night out and country clubs that cost into the 5-figures. That is if you have money. If you don't, are you thinking that such ammenities are free elsewhere?
If you don't have money Knoxville has ammenities specific to itself such as free large scale concerts, plays and the SMOKEY MOUNTAINS, the most diverse nature to be found in North America! Knoxville does lack the ocean, but in terms of FREE recreation I think the mountains match the beach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
There is no Utopia, Mayberry does not exist.
You can not have huge amenity filled city/town infrastructure AND have low property cost and property taxes. The more zoning laws you want imposed on your neighbors, the more your property taxes will be.
Correlation doesn't equal causation, but you could be right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse
Ok, be mad at me and let me have it, I can take it, but that is the truth, sorry if you were offended by it, but I would hate that someone moved here thinking they could have it all for the price they wanted to pay and the way they want it, or the way they are used to due to where they lived before. It just won't happen. Anywhere.
Anyone who moves here expecting a Metropolis with dirt cheap housing and free ammenities deserves to lose their shirt moving here and back.
H10, you are correct, this is a Knoxville sub forum and I was speaking of it and it's surrounding areas as well such as Dandridge, Jefferson City, Strawplains, Maryvile, etc. More of a regional look. sorry about that.
There have been a lot of requests on here for info about an outlying place to live so they can have that house on 2 acres and easy commute to Knoxville for work. That is why in my mind it is an entire area folks ask about not just a city.
As for: Quote:mbmouse
Originally Posted by mbmouse
I hate to be so blunt, but here it is: Yes, the population is majority white middle class
Quote: H10
I'm fairly certain that is true of essentially everywhere in the United States...
You lived outside of Miami.....I lived further North in FL than that, but you and I both know the majority is not by a high margin there.
Have you been to Detroit? How about San Antonio? Beverly Hills? No, there are a lot of cities in this country where the population is not majority white middle class. A lot of them are very one sided. I addressed this because for some unknown reason, people ask about "diversity" but they are really asking about the color and/or economic status of the area. I am proud to say it is all mixed up in this region and I like that. From that aspect I think this is one of the most diverse regions of the country.
As for the 10 plus generations I was speaking of the farmers and original land owners, there are still a lot here in the outskirts of the cities trying desperatly to hold on to that.
Add: OH! I forgot to comment on what you said about things to do. Yes, you are right, there are MANY ways you could spend your money and have the spa's, CC's and so forth here, I totally agree! However there are some who want that and only that and don't want to go to those free concerts because of who they might have to sit next too at that function. Then there are others who want only the freebies and begrudge those spa goers. I don't understand why people can't handle having both? It seems like no matter what, it is never enough of what one or two groups want. Those who like the stores and frills always want more and those who can't afford that always wants to see less of it. I guess it is just human nature, and very hard to just be happy with what you've got?
Last edited by mbmouse; 09-18-2008 at 04:10 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
TAP TAP TAP (sound of MbMouse Nailing It! LOL)
