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Just relying on memory now, but I think the last time there was a long drought, and the lake level dropped way down, I seem to remember them saying it would take seven years of above average snowfall to bring it back up. I don't think anyone worried that much then because we didn't have 2 million people here.
But is perception reality? Is there really a problem? Or is it sensationalism?
Vegas uses so little water that the 2 million here are not the issue. It is California farmers using so much on crops to export abroad that is the issue.
I had hopes for Las Vegans but by reading this thread I still see a fair amount of people who do not get it.
"We have plenty of water!" No you have water rights! You can only get what falls from the sky. As this weather cycle shows, long term droughts are possible and likely. The lakes have done their job of saving for a non-rainy day. Well it is time to replenish the savings account. Powell is coming up as well as other lakes in the system. Mead is just running a little behind. We need to start saving again for the next non-rainy day.
You all should be aware that Denver, Colorado Springs, and other communities on the east side of the continental divide have been siphoning off water for years and that has had a direct impact on the amount of water flowing west. Since they are upstream, the actual water is pretty close to the rights for same and downstream interests suffer. Luckily it all flows back into the pacific through the Panama Canal. (that was sarcsm)
And it is now widely known that the 1927 Colorado Water Compact was based on near record water years. My dad, who ironically was born in 1927 always said that water would be what stops the growth in the west. It is here now, dad. (RIP)
Agriculture is a big user but certainly keeps the cost of food in check. Like those winter vegetables? Thank the Colorado river storage system.
You can never say there is plenty until the lakes are full again. That has been a remarkable safety valve in western water management since the turn of the century. Lets just hope we can get some record winters and get back to where we were. In the meantime lets not have the belief that there is "plenty" because that is what will be our downfall.
I don't think SNWA particularly wants to build the pipeline. They simply will end up with no choice. And the question gets called whenever the lake level reaches the cutback value.
There is not and has never been a requirement to establish depletion rates in Nevada aquifers. How else do you think the aquifers in the Pahrump and Las Vegas Valley could be so totally over drawn? The way the water law is supposed to work is that anyone who interferes with an existing well is forced to desist...though that has never happened either. And the State Engineer is in a bind either way...if he rules tightly on SNWA he prevents anyone else from drawing that water as well.
The revenue stream that guarantees financing is the rate payers of Las Vegas.
Whenever a government agency withdraws an available requirement from a property it will be found to be a taking. And be careful about what can occur...Lake Las Vegas and Coyote Springs are both fine examples of the excessive water rights that float around in Nevada.
I don't think that any property that doesn't currently have a water meter can be considered to be having a legal right to a water meter. But putting the shoe on the other food, a property that does a have a water meter has a right to water.
Sure, SNWA rate payers would be backing the financing of the pipeline, just like the taxpayers of Detroit backed the borrowings of that city. If the pipeline is closed after it is built because it damages the environment in the Northern counties, I doubt that there is anything to stop SNWA from declaring bankruptcy.
The aquifers in Pahrump and the Las Vegas Valley belong to the same basin. Water is not being pumped out of the basin. I suspect that if these environment groups 40 years ago had the same laws we have today that development of those aquifers would have been more constrained.
I don't think that any property that doesn't currently have a water meter can be considered to be having a legal right to a water meter. But putting the shoe on the other food, a property that does a have a water meter has a right to water
They have a right to whatever the property had when they bought it. There are lots of places in coastal CA which are dirt cheap because they have no access to water. The gorgeous area around the Russian River is a good example. But on that coast you can't even drill for water as the sea enters if the local aquifer is overdrawn. Someday desalinization but you need cheaper energy costs.
YOu cannot simple decide tht a property no longer gets those services needed for it to be used. Just as you can't refuse to put in roads. While one may try sophistic defenses they will all lose in the courts.
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Sure, SNWA rate payers would be backing the financing of the pipeline, just like the taxpayers of Detroit backed the borrowings of that city. If the pipeline is closed after it is built because it damages the environment in the Northern counties, I doubt that there is anything to stop SNWA from declaring bankruptcy.
SNWQA is a part of the State of Nevada and goes bankrupt when Nevada does. Not before.
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The aquifers in Pahrump and the Las Vegas Valley belong to the same basin. Water is not being pumped out of the basin. I suspect that if these environment groups 40 years ago had the same laws we have today that development of those aquifers would have been more constrained.
Where do you get this stuff? there is no connection between the two aquifers and they in fact behave completely differently. Pahrump at the moment drops over a foot a year as it is opver pumped. Las Vegas rises a half a foot or so a year as iit is not overpumped. That however is a mixed blessing as SNWA claims to be storing water in it which it had the right to pump and did not. So basically the Las Vegas aquifer is filling with water claimed to be owned by SNWA. So they will claim, if the supply is stressed, to be able to heavily overpump the Vegas aquifer for a least a few years.
Pahrump is actually screwed by the test site. There is an aquifer to the north of Pahrump with substantial water that could be pumped to aid Pahrump. However the next aquifer over is under the test site...and if Pahrump pumps the one near to it nuclear contamination will end up leaving the test area. The only rational solution in Pahrump is to get access to a bit of the Colorado. Guess how likely that is?
One would think Nevada might have an action against the Feds for the aquifer contamination under the test site...wonder how that would selll?
There's a moratorium on water meters in Cambria, CA because of the lack of water. They refuse to build a desalination plant due to enviromental reasons. There are people who have been on a wait list for almost 2 decades who bought land but no water meter. Like bayview said, their only option is to buy the water meter from someone else. The land is cheap there, the water meters aren't.
Would that happen here? Probably not. Water authority will reduce the allocation to California which is the biggest user. That's not a good plan either as most of the produce in Vegas markets come from California. California is going to have to invest in desalination plants as we continue sucking up all the water in our inlands.
Desalination plants along the CA coast isn't not going to result in our getting a larger allocation of water, less demand for CO river water, as it will only stimulate more growth in CA. And no matter how thirsty they should get along the coast, given their notorious Nimby's, it's still going to be a tough sell. Along the coast of the Pendelton military base, now that's a possibility, no Nimby's there!
Cutting down agricultural usages of water in the Imperial district? I read of one corporation who bought one of these farms, and then? Became water farmers, selling that farm's water allocation to San Diego!
So far, as far as I know, there's one de-sal plant getting ready for operation in the San Diego area near Carlsbad, which will only provide a meager 7% of San Diego's water supply! And as you can well guess, they sure weren't going to locate that de-sal plant near La Jolla!
Let's say the water level in lake mead drops to the point where the Hoover Dam cannot effectively generate electricity.
What then happens when people turn on their air conditioners?
It works the same as always. The energy companies will just buy more power from their other sources.
If it creates energy scarcity then the rates will increase if NVEnergy can show the extra cost they endure at the next rate case. Worst case is new energy infrastructure gets built and that cost will be absorbed by consumers. In this case though, the ROI on home solar might start looking good.
They have a right to whatever the property had when they bought it. There are lots of places in coastal CA which are dirt cheap because they have no access to water. The gorgeous area around the Russian River is a good example. But on that coast you can't even drill for water as the sea enters if the local aquifer is overdrawn. Someday desalinization but you need cheaper energy costs.
YOu cannot simple decide tht a property no longer gets those services needed for it to be used. Just as you can't refuse to put in roads. While one may try sophistic defenses they will all lose in the courts.
SNWQA is a part of the State of Nevada and goes bankrupt when Nevada does. Not before.
Where do you get this stuff? there is no connection between the two aquifers and they in fact behave completely differently. Pahrump at the moment drops over a foot a year as it is opver pumped. Las Vegas rises a half a foot or so a year as iit is not overpumped. That however is a mixed blessing as SNWA claims to be storing water in it which it had the right to pump and did not. So basically the Las Vegas aquifer is filling with water claimed to be owned by SNWA. So they will claim, if the supply is stressed, to be able to heavily overpump the Vegas aquifer for a least a few years.
Pahrump is actually screwed by the test site. There is an aquifer to the north of Pahrump with substantial water that could be pumped to aid Pahrump. However the next aquifer over is under the test site...and if Pahrump pumps the one near to it nuclear contamination will end up leaving the test area. The only rational solution in Pahrump is to get access to a bit of the Colorado. Guess how likely that is?
One would think Nevada might have an action against the Feds for the aquifer contamination under the test site...wonder how that would selll?
Where do you get this stuff? SNWA is NOT part of the State of Nevada. It is a separate legal entity.
Water and roads are two separate items. How can a government agency supply a commodity it doesn't have? There is a limit to how much water the SNWA can deliver. The courts will recognize that fact when the time comes.
The two aquifers are in the same basin. Nobody said that they were connected.
Probably not very well since there are statutes of limitations.
Where do you get this stuff? SNWA is NOT part of the State of Nevada. It is a separate legal entity.
Water and roads are two separate items. How can a government agency supply a commodity it doesn't have? There is a limit to how much water the SNWA can deliver. The courts will recognize that fact when the time comes.
The two aquifers are in the same basin. Nobody said that they were connected.
Probably not very well since there are statutes of limitations.
You are being deliberately dense. SNWA has two major sources of direct revenue (other than the wholesale sale of water) These are connect charges...And...ready for this? Sales tax revenues. What do you call an agency that pays it bills with sales tax revenue?
There are odd fish...like many agencies in Southern Nevada. But they are clearly government agencies.
They of course do have the water at this instant. The question is do they have the water down the road a ways. And that is where Western Water law has always screwed up.
The way to fix all this is to change western water law. But that is a cosmic task probably doable only by a deity.
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Originally Posted by wpme
Lost Vegans will NEVER get water from Northern Nevada, its time to give up the pipe dream (pun intended)
They already have vast amounts of northern Nevada water. The question is whether they can get enough to make it worth while to transport it. And They have most of the critical rights to do the transport. The issue is paying for it.
As I said above SNWA would rather not deal with the issue at this point...but they must. And I think they are caught up in the fact that it is a one shot. If they don't go forward there never will be another shot.
And don't kid yourself. They are in no way bothered by the opposition. Nor should they be...they are worried about the cost and the politics in S. NV.
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