[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by LasVegasPlayer

Let's go back to 2012 for my insurance premium, as far back as I can go:

2012: $290
2013: $312
2014: $360 (lost my policy of 9 years due to ACA after this year)
2015: $685
2016: $816

Do you really think this is what my rates would be based on historical data of the policy I was promised I could keep? Keep in mind my rate is partially inflated because I'm forced to carry nonsense like obesity care, maternity and mental health. I have no need for any of that and we certainly shouldn't be insuring obesity care.

You're. Paying. Already.

The ACA was written by insurance companies for insurance companies. That is why even Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the bill.

[qingguy]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

Be as angry with cheats and mooches as you want. The solution is not to rip out the social safety net for those who actually need it.

Focusing on welfare queens to the exclusion of the real problems is exactly how the people who really control this country want you to think.

I agree, don't know if you noticed I didn't say anything about the people who these programs are intended for so please don't imply that's what I'm saying because I'm not. There are people who legitimately need these programs.

[Raiderman]

Originally Posted by qingguy

I would word it as, "we've been paying for this, now we want you to pay an ADDITIONAL tax (yes, this is a tax) to pay a larger portion than you've been paying, AND we're going to lie to you about how it will impact YOU AND take away your choices and then ram it up your A$$ several times.

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

Be as angry with cheats and mooches as you want. The solution is not to rip out the social safety net for those who actually need it.

Focusing on welfare queens to the exclusion of the real problems is exactly how the people who really control this country want you to think.

That doesn't negate his paragraph. The point is, we have ALREADY been paying for it, now we are being forced to pay more.

[beachhead]

Originally Posted by Raiderman

That doesn't negate his paragraph. The point is, we have ALREADY been paying for it, now we are being forced to pay more.

More without recourse. You can recall/vote out an idiot politician who supports/enables a tax increase. What can you do about the insurance companies that you are required to purchase from?

[ScoopLV]

You're a smoker. No matter what you pay for insurance, you are personally being subsidized for your health choices.


Using your line of thinking, I should complain to anyone who will listen that the five figures my employer pays for my health insurance each year be given to me as additional pay instead. "I should have the option of taking all the benefits in the form of salary. And if I get sick, the rest of the society can carry my financial burden!"

I would very much prefer it if we had a single unified system. Medicaid for everyone. That's how my doctors would prefer it, too. But since we don't HAVE that, it is up to everyone to sort out their health plans in such a way that they aren't a burden on their neighbors.

What we have now is basically a bunch of underinsured motorists complaining that their crappy insurance no longer exists, and they're being forced to purchase realistic policies. The difference being that people can opt-out of driving. But my point remains -- if people were really as smart as they claim to be online, they would set their lives up in such a way that healthcare isn't a concern.

[qingguy]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

What we have now is basically a bunch of underinsured motorists complaining that their crappy insurance no longer exists, and they're being forced to purchase realistic policies. The difference being that people can opt-out of driving. But my point remains -- if people were really as smart as they claim to be online, they would set their lives up in such a way that healthcare isn't a concern.

I WAS in a position where healthcare wasn't a concern. I've carried a catastrophic policy and self funded things like Drs. visits, blood work etc., it worked fine for years, even had a major health issue, everything worked fine. Now I'm told what coverage I need, what Drs. I can see, have to change plans every year and the American people were told a lie to put this in place. THAT is what I'm not happy about and why healthcare now matters to me.

Why did they do away with the catastrophic plans? It's simple to pay for the ACA (a tax). Should there be/have been a caveat that those who carry these policies show proof that they have the means to pay the uncovered costs related to healthcare, probably.

You want to tax me to provide healthcare for those who legitimately cannot, I have no issues with that, I'll happily pay it but at least categorize it as a tax. Lie to me about taking away my plan, Drs. and then ram it up my a$$ every year, I have an issue with that.

I fear this may be the next entitlement, $80,000 Volvo's for everyone -The hidden inequality of who dies in car crashes - The Washington Post

[LasVegasPlayer]

The "You had worse insurance before Obamacare" is nonsense. Maybe for some, but my deductible doubled and I had to go from 80/20 to 70/30. Since no doctor will take new patients with this exchange crap my copay went from $20 to 100%. The only positive difference is the lifetime cap was removed. Mine was $5 million before.

We were a part of the same group since 2006 so our rates were certainly well below market but there isn't any reason we should have been broken up. We weren't the problem. Add a 10% tax to subsidize, sure, but disbanding my policy was counter to the intent of the law. It just makes no sense.

[LasVegasPlayer]

I stand corrected. The Cadillac Tax in 2018.

Here is where Obama admitted he lied with "It's on me." It was just after 4.7 million cancelation notices went out in October 2013 (I got one of those but our policy got a last minute one year reprieve).

Obama: It's 'on me' - POLITICO

[qingguy]

Originally Posted by LasVegasPlayer

I stand corrected. The Cadillac Tax in 2018.

Here is where Obama admitted he lied with "It's on me." It was just after 4.7 million cancelation notices went out in October 2013 (I got one of those but our policy got a last minute one year reprieve).

Obama: It's 'on me' - POLITICO

Oh yea, I remember that, "my bad", oops folks, sorry!"

The insurance industry warned the administration that millions of policies would be canceled, yet they chose to ignore and proceed to lie to the American people and then after the fact, "my bad, sorry about that".

[ScoopLV]

A good (as in "paid-one's-fare-share") plan costs in the neighborhood of $10K per year for a young(ish) healthy individual, and $30K per year for a family.

That's what healthcare in America costs. That's what I pay. That's what my wife pays.


I have yet to hear from anyone online saying: "I'm a young(ish), healthy individual who before ACA was paying around $10K per year for my health insurance and now thanks to Obama, it's going up."

Mostly I see complaints from people who paid a couple hundred bucks a month, who now don't have that option. There are plenty of developing countries that don't have any health insurance costs. Just pay as you go. Hopefully, expensive surgeries, organ transplants or life-prolonging therapies are not in the cards for you.

That's right -- just like everyone here is always telling me -- "If you don't like it, move!" You all should really quit being so negative.