Goodbye, MTA Long Island Bus (New York, Hempstead: buy, salary, taxes)

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Can this tax be rescinded completely or lowered for Nassau once MTA is no longer involved in Nassau's bus service? The MTA is certainly picking our carcass and giving us next to nothing in return except what has turned out to be the most expensive commuter railroad in the world, the LIRR. Gee thanks, MTA!

I don't know for sure, probably not solely from privatizing LIBus, but that would be sweet. Nassau could set a precedent here for other counties being taken advantage of, ie, don't do business with the MTA...even though Nassau is the major loser out of all NY counties in any dealings with them. Everyone on LI should be pissed off at all these taxes MTA is imposing. We're paying for it one way or another, whether the business passes along the extra cost to consumers or you lose your job because of the payroll tax, underemployed, etc.. the MTA tentacles reach into everyones' pockets.

[agw123]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

I don't know for sure, probably not solely from privatizing LIBus, but that would be sweet. Nassau could set a precedent here for other counties being taken advantage of, ie, don't do business with the MTA...even though Nassau is the major loser out of all NY counties in any dealings with them. Everyone on LI should be pissed off at all these taxes MTA is imposing. We're paying for it one way or another, whether the business passes along the extra cost to consumers or you lose your job because of the payroll tax, underemployed, etc.. the MTA tentacles reach into everyones' pockets.

I am not completely sure, but I dont think you'll see the MTA tax gone... The LIRR is still there and Suffolk doesnt get any MTA bus service and still pays the tax....
I dont support the tax, but it should be at least pro-rated to the amount of services in your county. I.e. City should pay more than Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, etc...

[Interlude]

Why does mass transit have to be profitable? It's a quasi-government service designed to benefit everyone (read the link I posted on the last page to see how it applies to you). By definition it's going to be unprofitable if you think of it like a business that exists only to sell a product.

We pay a tax for it because it's a beneficial service to have, even if you don't ride the bus. Those without cars are still taxed to pay for roads, stoplights and traffic cops. Those who... well, this says it better than me.

I mean I guess if you think that buses are only used by illegals then just keep on your merry way and sent me a postcard from crazytown.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Interlude

Why does mass transit have to be profitable? It's a quasi-government service designed to benefit everyone (read the link I posted on the last page to see how it applies to you). By definition it's going to be unprofitable if you think of it like a business that exists only to sell a product.

We pay a tax for it because it's a beneficial service to have, even if you don't ride the bus. Those without cars are still taxed to pay for roads, stoplights and traffic cops. Those who... well, this says it better than me.

I mean I guess if you think that buses are only used by illegals then just keep on your merry way and sent me a postcard from crazytown.

Only the bus has to be profitable directly off its users.

The bridge tolls don't have to reflect the true cost of upkeep.

Neither do any of the commuter railroads, especially the ones that serve wealthy upper middle class clientele. Notice how in the last couple of fare hikes the Connecticut riders of MetroNorth didn't have to pay ONE PENNY EXTRA because their governor said "no fare hikes" for them! Nevermind everyone else in the MTA system had to pay more!

Neither do the express buses whizzing to and fro.

Neither do commuter ferries. They should all be free like Staten Island's!

Nor does anything within the 5 boroughs. MTA will pay ANYTHING towards NYC.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Only the bus has to be profitable directly off its users.

The bridge tolls don't have to reflect the true cost of upkeep.

Neither do any of the commuter railroads, especially the ones that serve wealthy upper middle class clientele. Notice how in the last couple of fare hikes the Connecticut riders of MetroNorth didn't have to pay ONE PENNY EXTRA because their governor said "no fare hikes" for them! Nevermind everyone else in the MTA system had to pay more!

Neither do the express buses whizzing to and fro.

Neither do commuter ferries. They should all be free like Staten Island's!

Nor does anything within the 5 boroughs. MTA will pay ANYTHING towards NYC.

I really wish the MTA would be more like NJ Transit which isn't as City-centric as the MTA. They toll the bridges out of here, yet people get a free drive to Manhattan. They charge us just as much MTA tax as the city but we dont get as many services in return.
Yet it still doesn't excuse Nassau County for refusing to put enough money in for the MTA (or anyone else) to run Long Island Bus.
I would rather see the MTA tax percentage be based on the amount of services used, and the tolls removed from the VZ, Throgs Neck, and Whitestone bridges and placed on all the bridges into Manhattan.
But that still doesn't change the fact Nassau is responsible for its bus system.

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by Interlude

Why does mass transit have to be profitable? It's a quasi-government service designed to benefit everyone (read the link I posted on the last page to see how it applies to you). By definition it's going to be unprofitable if you think of it like a business that exists only to sell a product.

We pay a tax for it because it's a beneficial service to have, even if you don't ride the bus. Those without cars are still taxed to pay for roads, stoplights and traffic cops.

I mean I guess if you think that buses are only used by illegals then just keep on your merry way and sent me a postcard from crazytown.

Unless they are buying gasoline and paying gas taxes, those without cars are probably not paying much into roads. I totally understand the benefits of a public system; it's the fraud and abuse by the MTA that people are peeved with. Like the $845 Million the MTA spent on lavish prime HQ in downtown manhattan, $600 Million in unchecked Overtime, $20 Million on an employee lounge in GCStation, $7 Million on a special dog-house in Dutchess county, and all the fat cat waste listed here-
//www.city-data.com/forum/18314395-post3.html

The whole point I'm making is this could be done a LOT cheaper! Look at the example seanx4 found with Hamptons Road Transit -- a similar sized operation to LI bus that is run at 40% (Salary component) of the wasteful LI Bus budget. The greed is out of control. The new MTA payroll tax went too far and is just another nail in the coffin of LI if they don't abolish it.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Only the bus has to be profitable directly off its users.

The bridge tolls don't have to reflect the true cost of upkeep.

Neither do any of the commuter railroads, especially the ones that serve wealthy upper middle class clientele. Notice how in the last couple of fare hikes the Connecticut riders of MetroNorth didn't have to pay ONE PENNY EXTRA because their governor said "no fare hikes" for them! Nevermind everyone else in the MTA system had to pay more!

Neither do the express buses whizzing to and fro.

Neither do commuter ferries. They should all be free like Staten Island's!

Nor does anything within the 5 boroughs. MTA will pay ANYTHING towards NYC.

LIBus, I'm almost certain, only gets ~30% of its revenues from riders. The other 70% comes from Nassau County, MTA subsidy, NYS subsidy. 54% comes from dedicated taxes like the tax on our cell phone bills, vehicle reg., drivers license, payroll tax / MCTMT, the sales taxes we pay everyday, etc. Riders are getting a huge discount paying only $2.25 fares.

The Bridge & Tunnels are hugely profitable for the MTA. The guy in that vid did a study that the amount of income earned off of B&T's is enough to pay to rebuild brand new ones every 4.7 years. That $13 we pay to cross the Verrazano is going towards fat $10k/month pensions for the MTA elite, not towards any 'real' upkeep of the B&Ts. NY is not supposed to be paying "Public Authorities" when they mismanage/waste and run deficits. The PAs are supposed to be self-sufficient (according to NYS law). This isn't a school or other public benefit like Interlude was trying to make it out to be. The MTA has morphed into more of a greedy monopolistic corporation, that somehow has the power to take money directly from our paychecks. But they're slick about it..they don't put it all on one tax bill, instead the MTA takes via 8 or so different sources.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Unless they are buying gasoline and paying gas taxes, those without cars are probably not paying much into roads. I totally understand the benefits of a public system; it's the fraud and abuse by the MTA that people are peeved with. Like the $845 Million the MTA spent on lavish prime HQ in downtown manhattan, $600 Million in unchecked Overtime, $20 Million on an employee lounge in GCStation, $7 Million on a special dog-house in Dutchess county, and all the fat cat waste listed here-
//www.city-data.com/forum/18314395-post3.html

The whole point I'm making is this could be done a LOT cheaper! Look at the example seanx4 found with Hamptons Road Transit -- a similar sized operation to LI bus that is run at 40% (Salary component) of the wasteful LI Bus budget. The greed is out of control. The new MTA payroll tax went too far and is just another nail in the coffin of LI if they don't abolish it.



LIBus, I'm almost certain, only gets ~30% of its revenues from riders. The other 70% comes from Nassau County, MTA subsidy, NYS subsidy. 54% comes from dedicated taxes like the tax on our cell phone bills, vehicle reg., drivers license, payroll tax / MCTMT, the sales taxes we pay everyday, etc. Riders are getting a huge discount paying only $2.25 fares.

The Bridge & Tunnels are hugely profitable for the MTA. The guy in that vid did a study that the amount of income earned off of B&T's is enough to pay to rebuild brand new ones every 4.7 years. That $13 we pay to cross the Verrazano is going towards fat $10k/month pensions for the MTA elite, not towards any 'real' upkeep of the B&Ts. NY is not supposed to be paying "Public Authorities" when they mismanage/waste and run deficits. The PAs are supposed to be self-sufficient (according to NYS law). This isn't a school or other public benefit like Interlude was trying to make it out to be. The MTA has morphed into more of a greedy monopolistic corporation, that somehow has the power to take money directly from our paychecks. But they're slick about it..they don't put it all on one tax bill, instead the MTA takes via 8 or so different sources.

Does HRT have any 24hr routes like the N4 and the N6? Do they have routes that run more often than every 30 minutes? Do they have routes that run late at night?
Well MTA Long Island Bus does. In the past several years when the MTA took more of a management role many routes that used to end at a ghastly 6 or 7pm were extended to run till 10-11pm.

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by Johninwestbury

Does HRT have any 24hr routes like the N4 and the N6? Do they have routes that run more often than every 30 minutes? Do they have routes that run late at night?
Well MTA Long Island Bus does. In the past several years when the MTA took more of a management role many routes that used to end at a ghastly 6 or 7pm were extended to run till 10-11pm.

24hr I am not sure, but taking a quick look at their routes they do have many that run every 30 minutes during rush hours; HRT is cheaper to ride too, and most likely a real 30 minutes -- not 50 minutes (20 minutes late), where you can beat the bus walking in many cases like erratic LI Bus.
You can attest to the shoddy performance of LIBS, I remember someone making a video where they beat the bus to greenvale?

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Unless they are buying gasoline and paying gas taxes, those without cars are probably not paying much into roads. I totally understand the benefits of a public system; it's the fraud and abuse by the MTA that people are peeved with. Like the $845 Million the MTA spent on lavish prime HQ in downtown manhattan, $600 Million in unchecked Overtime, $20 Million on an employee lounge in GCStation, $7 Million on a special dog-house in Dutchess county, and all the fat cat waste listed here-
//www.city-data.com/forum/18314395-post3.html

The whole point I'm making is this could be done a LOT cheaper! Look at the example seanx4 found with Hamptons Road Transit -- a similar sized operation to LI bus that is run at 40% (Salary component) of the wasteful LI Bus budget. The greed is out of control. The new MTA payroll tax went too far and is just another nail in the coffin of LI if they don't abolish it.



LIBus, I'm almost certain, only gets ~30% of its revenues from riders. The other 70% comes from Nassau County, MTA subsidy, NYS subsidy. 54% comes from dedicated taxes like the tax on our cell phone bills, vehicle reg., drivers license, payroll tax / MCTMT, the sales taxes we pay everyday, etc. Riders are getting a huge discount paying only $2.25 fares.

The Bridge & Tunnels are hugely profitable for the MTA. The guy in that vid did a study that the amount of income earned off of B&T's is enough to pay to rebuild brand new ones every 4.7 years. That $13 we pay to cross the Verrazano is going towards fat $10k/month pensions for the MTA elite, not towards any 'real' upkeep of the B&Ts. NY is not supposed to be paying "Public Authorities" when they mismanage/waste and run deficits. The PAs are supposed to be self-sufficient (according to NYS law). This isn't a school or other public benefit like Interlude was trying to make it out to be. The MTA has morphed into more of a greedy monopolistic corporation, that somehow has the power to take money directly from our paychecks. But they're slick about it..they don't put it all on one tax bill, instead the MTA takes via 8 or so different sources.

How much of the revenue does the LIRR and MetroNorth commuters and the MTA subways and buses get from the riders?

LI Bus is on the ropes and everyone is screaming for the riders to pay the most, yet it's okay for the commuters on the 4 types of mass transit above to get most of their funding from our tax dollars.

[scottzilla]

I just saw a bus with one passenger. Having busses in Suffolk County is a dumb waste of money. This is suburbia and everyone knows public transportation (In it's current form) just doesn't work in suburbia. But keep throwing money at it.
I say good riddance.