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I remember reading how special needs students easily cost 100k plus per child....sometimes far far more. I heard as high as 150k per child. All this is very burdensome for the school budget.
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Originally Posted by sirtiger
Obviously you are clueless.
I have a close relative who is severely autistic who lives in Westchester. Their town didn't offer special services so they had to have a special bus that picks up a handful of kids to transport them to another town. Their resident town reimburse that town to accommodate him. There are afterschool and even weekend services for some students. The cost? $150,000+ per year to be reimbursed. I saw the bill with my own eyes. Does every special services cost that much? Of course not. Every student is evaluated & treated on a case by case. Its real money billed to the tax payer. Should be go back to the old days of dumping all the special needs kids at a mental institution? Of course not.
"remember reading" "heard" ... now you magically saw one instance with your own eyes.
I generally agree and don't want to get into an argument over taking care of kids but I have 1st hand knowledge of the costs. At a $29k average we are factoring in the majority of kids who just need special help for mild learning disabilities. On "average" many are somewhere on the autism spectrum and require modest services, mostly behavioral and tutoring. There are also a large number requiring much more intensive care. School year tuition at Eden II day program is $55k, summer tuition is $28k, full time nurse is $1600/wk, behavioral consultant at $160 per hr, transportation, tutoring, OT, PT thousands more. We have at least 30 kids in the district who go to intensive day programs. It's well over $100k per child. I'm not arguing. I'm just stating a fact. Realize though that a lawyer/mediator is at every parent-district meeting and gets paid. Evaluations are mandated and must be paid for by the district. It's a difficult situation. We all want to provide the best for the kids but the costs do spiral out of control. My only beef is that the fear of appearing even the slightest bit insensitive stymies the districts from trying to contain those costs. Even auditors (from the smallest right up to the state comptroller) don't want to stick their nose in Special Ed spending, it's a political minefield. I honestly believe as taxpayers we are proud to do right by these kids and the parents are appreciative, but there is a definite adversarial relationship between the IEP developers and the districts. They see an endless revenue stream while the taxpayers and Cuomo are forcing the district to hold the line. Have you EVER heard a politician, school admin or anyone (except ME, maybe, lol) talk publicly about containing spiraling special ed costs?! It's rare. I admit it's a difficult situation. I still believe it's a good place for some consolidation. Each district is doing separate RFP's for Spec Ed Related Services and this could be more centralized with more standardized pricing and lower administrative costs. It's not about local control as these providers are generally out of district anyway.
good post. As noted, they do bus some kids to other school district & bill them.
It seems many admins of the school insist to test every little thing. There are instances where they want to send every other kid to therapy.
I think of the analogy where I had an experience where a specialist doctor said I should get tested every year even though there was nothing wrong with the results. I started to wonder if there was ulterior motives.....specifically to pad his paycheck. The flip side was it didn't hurt to get tested more often. My insurance was billed well over 50 grand in one year of just various routine testing. . At the end, we all pay for it.
talk publicly about containing spiraling special ed costs?! It's rare. I admit it's a difficult situation. I still believe it's a good place for some consolidation. Each district is doing separate RFP's for Spec Ed Related Services and this could be more centralized with more standardized pricing and lower administrative costs. It's not about local control as these providers are generally out of district anyway.
NYC has its own school district for kids with special needs. It's called District 75. Maybe it could work for Nassau and Suffolk to cut down on some costs.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Curious, how many of those proposing cuts to special ed, actually have special needs children? Would your perspective change if it was your kid that was going to have their services cut off or diminished? Someone mentioned district 75 in NYC. I can tell you District 75 in NYC is a disaster and is basically a place to send the special needs kids to be forgotten. Not because the ppl working in District 75 are bad ppl or do not care for their job, its because of the lack of resources...there is too much need and not enough resources. No resources, no pencils, no crayons, dirty toys, no technology, lax security (Avonte Oquendo?). Is this what is to be aspired to? Guess why this happens, because its easy to attack the weak and pull much needed resources for a population that has been mentioned several times in this thread. Furthermore ppl move to Long Island for a better school district in general, and the taxes that come with that. If you can't afford it, then it may be time to downsize and move on.
And howard beale, im with you. You were the only one to provide support for your numbers....everyone else here sees, hears, thinks... but no one can provide hard evidence, which makes their arguments fruitless. someone actually posted an excerpt of an article they read, and copied and pasted a paragraph to support their arguement? Where's the context?
Someone mentioned district 75 in NYC. I can tell you District 75 in NYC is a disaster and is basically a place to send the special needs kids to be forgotten. Not because the ppl working in District 75 are bad ppl or do not care for their job, its because of the lack of resources...there is too much need and not enough resources. No resources, no pencils, no crayons, dirty toys, no technology, lax security (Avonte Oquendo?). Is this what is to be aspired to?
I mentioned it. So if NYC doesn't have the resources, maybe LI does, since they pay so much already? Maybe it might work better for them?
Side note: since when are crayons considered a lack of resources? Isn't that the point of sending home a list of what the kid needs for the school year? So the parents can buy it?
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Seventh floor - what in essence we are talking about is pooling resources together and cutting. Thats the whole point of this thread to save on tax dollars. That's exactly what NYC did and its left that district in shambles. (ie a classroom for 12-1-2 is actually 16-1-2) I don't think you want to use that as a model. Why do you think it would be any different in LI? it may have the resources now, but once you centralize and cut, guess what happens...
Side note: ok maybe not crayons, how about a history book that doesn't end with Jimmy Carter as the last president?
Seventh floor - what in essence we are talking about is pooling resources together and cutting. Thats the whole point of this thread to save on tax dollars. That's exactly what NYC did and its left that district in shambles. (ie a classroom for 12-1-2 is actually 16-1-2) I don't think you want to use that as a model. Why do you think it would be any different in LI? it may have the resources now, but once you centralize and cut, guess what happens...
Side note: ok maybe not crayons, how about a history book that doesn't end with Jimmy Carter as the last president?
In shambles? NYC public schools haven't been the same since the fiscal crisis of the 1970s. Consolidation was not the key to its downfall. But some cutting has to be done, as obviously many on LI think the expenses as of current are not warranted, even unexplained to some degree.
Side note: my stepdaughter is in District 75 and she's getting the best grades she ever has to date. So I guess it boils down to personal experience. Her only dilemma is that she goes to a hood school with hood kids so once in a blue she gets into something. 2 more years and she'll be in high school, which will be a better look for her because she'll be going to school closer to where she grew up with a lot of older neighborhood kids that she knows from her old neighborhood.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Curious, how many of those proposing cuts to special ed, actually have special needs children? Would your perspective change if it was your kid that was going to have their services cut off or diminished? Someone mentioned district 75 in NYC. I can tell you District 75 in NYC is a disaster and is basically a place to send the special needs kids to be forgotten. Not because the ppl working in District 75 are bad ppl or do not care for their job, its because of the lack of resources...there is too much need and not enough resources. No resources, no pencils, no crayons, dirty toys, no technology, lax security (Avonte Oquendo?). Is this what is to be aspired to? Guess why this happens, because its easy to attack the weak and pull much needed resources for a population that has been mentioned several times in this thread. Furthermore ppl move to Long Island for a better school district in general, and the taxes that come with that. If you can't afford it, then it may be time to downsize and move on.
Comparing the city to LI is a ridiculous comparison (I know neither you or I made it originally). LI is a gold standard for providing care and almost no IEP is questioned or challenged. I gave actual numbers but am not going to give you my social security # and thumbprint because you don't want to accept the validity. I told you the ACTUAL tuition for one of the most popular day programs on the Island. That's a fact, not an "article someone read" or anecdote. It's impossible to discuss this because like you and Howie B, it always comes back to a guilt trip "do you actually HAVE special needs kids?", "would YOU want services diminished?" "it's easy to pull from the weak." etc, etc.
Exactly the fear mongering that allows the lawyers to gouge the district and taxpayer. Do you have PROOF that the IEP's are best serving the kids at the rates paid?! Are you AUDITING the services? That's my point. NO ONE IS. It's a wild west of spending and rubber stamping services for anyone who wants them and does that kind of system EVER best serve the ones who really NEED them?! If I thought that led to the kids getting the most for the money, great. But I don't. I know an uncountable chunk of it is lining the pockets of lawyers, insurance agencies, health professionals and consultants. If you can't discuss it without the insensitivity guilt trips, why bother discussing it at all. How do you suggest making it exemplary AND sustainable?
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. At the end, we all pay for it.
