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Lets be clear, im not saying NYC public schools are in shambles because of consolidation, what Im saying is District 75 of NYC is in shambles because of consolidation. Guess when District 75 was setup? 1980s right after the 70's crisis.. This is the same argument made back then ...it was going to be great, efficient and this and that...
If cutting is to be done ...lets start with General Ed. Leave the special needs programs alone.
And again if you buy a house on Long island and in an excellent school district, you should expect to pay alot in taxes. You can choose to live in long island in a mediocre school district and still pay 8-9k in taxes.
Its like those people who can afford a Cadillac escalade V8, and then complain why it takes them $200 to fill up.
if you dont like the situation here's a potential solution: Sell the SUV(house) and buy a Prius(Apt) and pay less gas(taxes).
marigold69 - sure i'm with you, lets cut, no guilt trips. Lets start with the General ED and once we're done cutting the teachers and bump the class sizes up to a normal size of 30, then lets take a look at Special ED. Any objections on Looking at General ED first? because im sure theres no waste in delivering General Education. do we all agree?
marigold69 - sure i'm with you, lets cut, no guilt trips. Lets start with the General ED and once we're done cutting the teachers and bump the class sizes up to a normal size of 30, then lets take a look at Special ED. Any objections on Looking at General ED first? because im sure theres no waste in delivering General Education. do we all agree?
I wouldn't cut Gen Ed or Spec Ed. We ALL know where the money goes ($130k kindergarten teachers who moonlight as summer camp counselors, but I digress and don't want to open that can of worms). I just would like them to stop being sooo afraid to look at the Special Ed services to see what is actually beneficial and what is being ripped off. When I talk consolidating, it's nothing like NYC. I'm talking more like BOCES. Allow the better providers to scale up services and lower costs all around. No cuts to services, just better and more accurate tracking and justification of the money spent. Here's what I mean: Right now E. Meadow sends student #xxxx (HIPPA rules, ya know) to Eden II and bills Levittown $95k for the tuition. Eden II also provides 3rd party services that get billed to Levittown that are listed in an IEP but no one checks the providers selected or the rate(s). Student goes to the hospital and must be admitted for a week. IEP mandates tutoring. School has RFP for tutors at $39/hr...but provider sends tutor at $69/hr. School just has to pay. On and on. District budgets $110k for the kid. They end up getting billed closer to the $150 (that ugly number from previous posts). District just pays it. Auditor says nothing. Reimbursements (Medicaid, State Aid) fall short of projections and budgets are in deficit. It's not about the services. It's about the lack of oversight in the programs. Mostly for fear of looking "insensitive" or fear of angering a parent. Like I said, no easy answers. A sensitive subject, politically and emotionally charged....and a huge money pit.
Last edited by marigold69; 05-28-2014 at 01:38 PM..
Scale up services and lower costs...would you work harder and better for less money? Less be real here, we're not talking about making TV's over here. If you had a serious medical issue, Would you go to a Dr that sees 10 patients in one hour that costs less or a DR who sees 2 patients in 1 hour but costs more? Who do you think is providing better quality? I think we should take a look at general ed, thats where the majority of the population is and im sure we can find waste.
I don't have a special needs child but I can sympathize with their situations. Marigold you keep coming back to making Special Ed more efficient, what are your families needs? Special Ed? Yes or No.
Scale up services and lower costs...would you work harder and better for less money? Less be real here, we're not talking about making TV's over here. If you had a serious medical issue, Would you go to a Dr that sees 10 patients in one hour that costs less or a DR who sees 2 patients in 1 hour but costs more? Who do you think is providing better quality? I think we should take a look at general ed, thats where the majority of the population is and im sure we can find waste.
I don't have a special needs child but I can sympathize with their situations. Marigold you keep coming back to making Special Ed more efficient, what are your families needs? Special Ed? Yes or No.
Everyone has special needs kids close to them. Fortunately not in my family but a few I coach in sports. Why do you always feel your point is better expressed by challenging everyone else's "personal attachment" to the issue? Why does it matter. I haven't withheld my taxes due to special ed costs. Have you?!?
You need to understand business and medicine IS a business. I love that theory that if they charge more they must somehow be "better." I have news for you. They already send price proposals and COMPETE for school contracts and lower their prices to get in the door. Yes, those same providers you gladly pay "top tax dollars in your better LI district for" compete just like TV makers. Some of the services are rote work. There are plenty of qualified providers. Do you gladly pony up a $50 co-pay for your dentist rather than a $20 co-pay to the same dentist? Does that make him "better?!"
I am never going to convince you what a mess the system is now. I'm glad you feel good throwing money down a hole and telling yourself it's resulting in "better" service.
I didnt say i was happy with paying the taxes i do. But guess what, im a big boy and made a decision. Before I made an offer and before I closed, i understood my taxes and where they went. Now I ask you again would you provide more and better services for less? why or why not? Also, if you needed an operation (special needs school) would you go to a Dr (school district) that was highly regarded and costs more (higher property taxes) or would you go to a Dr that is not well regarded but delivered less expensive?
Again will you consider cutting General ED, or do you think its pretty efficient?
Or we can just move back to the city, pay more for property, less in property taxes and send the kids to private school 30k/yr
I didnt say i was happy with paying the taxes i do. But guess what, im a big boy and made a decision. Before I made an offer and before I closed, i understood my taxes and where they went. Now I ask you again would you provide more and better services for less? why or why not? Also, if you needed an operation (special needs school) would you go to a Dr (school district) that was highly regarded and costs more (higher property taxes) or would you go to a Dr that is not well regarded but delivered less expensive?
Again will you consider cutting General ED, or do you think its pretty efficient?
Or we can just move back to the city, pay more for property, less in property taxes and send the kids to private school 30k/yr
You just keep repeating yourself. You say you "understood your taxes and where they went" and I pointed out that we don't actually know where they go.
I would definitely provide more and better services for less. That is some people's job. You hire them, you elect them. Shouldn't they be held accountable? Is that somehow wrong?!
I would go to the best Doctor available. If the best cost less, even better. You get to choose from whoever is bidding to do work for your district, not Marcus Welby, MD. Just becasue you think you are paying more for "the best," in reality, you are paying for "the best that meets the minimum qualifications in the specs." In the real world, we want to pay the lowest price for the "the best that meets the minimum qualifications in the specs." Not pay more because we have some fantasy notion that we are getting Lt. Hawkeye Pierce, MD because we pay higher taxes.
I think Gen Ed runs incredibly lean. Programs have been gutted to pay teacher salaries and pension obligations. You gonna save a pantload by cutting the Chess club?! Really?! Teachers in my district get $25 per year for supplies. Besides, I already said 3 times you don't need to CUT anything (you simply ignore it whenever I say it). We need to better manage the Spec Ed/PPS spending to see where we are not getting our money's worth. How can I be any clearer on that point for you?!
its easy to reorganize/better manage/more efficient/lean and mean six sigma/swot analysis (any other biz school buzz words) programs where YOU are not getting your money's worth. This is my point.. YOU do not have a special needs child (you may know some, but thats not the same as them being yours) So YOU feel it is inefficient and to quote you "a money pit" , and since YOU pay for a service where YOU do not receive any benefits, its easy for YOU to raise what you think are all the inefficiencies with a program to make it less expensive and therefore lower your tax burden.
btw BMW or Ford, which is a better car? You want BMW performance but are only willing to pay for a Ford. Not saying to overpay or pay the highest bid, but there is a correlation to price and value. And since YOU dont care about the special ed services provided and the price tag that comes with it, because YOU have no use for them, its easy to suggest to reorg, reshape the entire program because YOU see no value and therefore you can not justify the price (because at the end of the day if quality of services tapered you will not be affected). Ask someone with a special needs child if they feel they are getting ample services for their child. and see if they feel the programs are a money pit.
its easy to reorganize/better manage/more efficient/lean and mean six sigma/swot analysis (any other biz school buzz words) programs where YOU are not getting your money's worth. This is my point.. YOU do not have a special needs child (you may know some, but thats not the same as them being yours) So YOU feel it is inefficient and to quote you "a money pit" , and since YOU pay for a service where YOU do not receive any benefits, its easy for YOU to raise what you think are all the inefficiencies with a program to make it less expensive and therefore lower your tax burden.
btw BMW or Ford, which is a better car? You want BMW performance but are only willing to pay for a Ford. Not saying to overpay or pay the highest bid, but there is a correlation to price and value. And since YOU dont care about the special ed services provided and the price tag that comes with it, because YOU have no use for them, its easy to suggest to reorg, reshape the entire program because YOU see no value and therefore you can not justify the price (because at the end of the day if quality of services tapered you will not be affected). Ask someone with a special needs child if they feel they are getting ample services for their child. and see if they feel the programs are a money pit.
This is my last post. have a good one.
Thank god it's your last post. Your analogies make no sense. Waste is waste, regardless of whether you are using the services or not. Anyone relying on the service is MORE concerned about waste and seeing THEIR taxes that should go to the kids misspent. So funny you are so attuned to waste on the Gen Ed side but somehow waste on the Special Ed side is sacrosanct and absurd! NOTHING I PROPOSED WOULD LOWER MY TAX BURDEN nor did I see "no value." Nice try. Keep putting words in my mouth until you find your point. BTW, BMW is not bidding on the services. Another whacko analogy. Ford and Chevy are. Which do you want to pay more for now that those are your choices? Really though, there is no such thing as BMW vs Ford healthcare in the public sector. That's all in your mind. These are public benefits, not private insurance. You don't get a Cadillac plan just because a lawyer says you have to pay Cadillac price.
Thank god it's your last post. Your analogies make no sense. Waste is waste, regardless of whether you are using the services or not. Anyone relying on the service is MORE concerned about waste and seeing THEIR taxes that should go to the kids misspent. So funny you are so attuned to waste on the Gen Ed side but somehow waste on the Special Ed side is sacrosanct and absurd! NOTHING I PROPOSED WOULD LOWER MY TAX BURDEN nor did I see "no value." Nice try. Keep putting words in my mouth until you find your point. BTW, BMW is not bidding on the services. Another whacko analogy. Ford and Chevy are. Which do you want to pay more for now that those are your choices? Really though, there is no such thing as BMW vs Ford healthcare in the public sector. That's all in your mind. These are public benefits, not private insurance. You don't get a Cadillac plan just because a lawyer says you have to pay Cadillac price.
Exactly! Often when it comes to things public sector, we are paying through the nose because of cronyism, not just because the service is exceptionally better than another one's service.
As for IEPs, I am close with a person with an autistic child. Some of the IEP stuff makes you wonder and even the parents don't think some of it is worth it ... like recommending busing a 3 year old from Nassau who can in no way even ride a horse for "horse therapy" way out in Suffolk ... or persisting for WELL OVER TEN YEARS in weekly "speech therapy" private sessions outside of school with child going to provider's home/office with school district probably paying a fortune where the child has NEVER spoken and is now a teenager. Somebody's making out on stuff like this ... and it's not the handicapped child.
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