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It's not like cars didn't get washed before Pedro and his ten million cousins showed up. How is it that the United States survived for almost 200 years without the well-renowned Mexican work ethic? Latin America must be an economic powerhouse, what with the hundreds of millions of little Horatio Algers they're churning out.
Yikes, what an insulting position to take. I guess black men must be extremely lazy, given that they have the highest rate of unemployment - one in ten are out of work right now. I bet some of them would kill for the chance to wash cars.
Incidentally, the idea that illegal immigrants are working for pennies is ridiculous. Many are making well over the minimum wage, such as those working jobs in construction. They're certainly not being paid any less than other people working the same jobs in places like the service industry. These are jobs that Americans used to work, and it should return to that, if force by necessary. Start hanging business owners from lamp posts and the rest of them will get the message pretty quick.
What do you believe is the going rate for a day laborer off the street? Do you even know? And do you really even believe that people are lining up for these service industry jobs?
Have to ask, because your statements are so disconnected with reality, as was your suggestion. I put up a post article on the labor issue in Long Island - feel free to read it before you answer.
It is because they live in such substandard conditions, with 10 to a house as others have complained about. Places like Bay Shore or Uniondale exist because of this. Consequently, when they disappear it becomes the next issue - why is everything so expensive.
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Originally Posted by Uggggs
The key word was experience. The Jew/Italians/Irish were not welcomed. Each group were seen as outcast at some point in that time, just like the illegals you are referring too. If you truly believed they were welcomed, then I hate to break it to you but, the history books you read are white washed.
The Five Points is an example. Infamous for all the wrong reasons that even Charles Dicken and Emily Dickenson had to visit to see whether it was true as deplorable as described, yet today the story is studied and the area has developed. The Jewish ghettos in Barcelona, and Prague are another example. Outcast put into a corner but now studied and visited.
Exactly. I wonder how many of these poster's ancestors were here "legally" by their definition, and how many were welcomed when they arrived.
Ellis Island made people "legal immigrants".
Unless they are descendants of Pilgrims who were not only here without papers, but were invading a civilization - that of the Native Americans.
We were built as a Nation of Immigrants, refugees and descendants of kidnapped and enslaved people.
Our past as a country has not always matched our ideals. For example, in the late 30s, a boatload of Jewish children were returned to their death at the hands of the Nazis. We imprisoned people of Japanese ancestry during WWII while we seized their homes and businesses.
Some of you need to study history. Many of you sound like members of the Know Nothing Party who were appalled by the arrival of Catholics and Jews in NY.
So many on Long Island have been sipping Trump's noxious Kool Aid. Trump - the Nouveau Ariviste who's father was a Klan member, protested Irish Catholic cops and the first Italian Americans to buy a home in Jamaica Estates.
Exactly. I wonder how many of these poster's ancestors were here "legally" by their definition, and how many were welcomed when they arrived.
Ellis Island made people "legal immigrants".
Unless they are descendants of Pilgrims who were not only here without papers, but were invading a civilization - that of the Native Americans.
We were built as a Nation of Immigrants, refugees and descendants of kidnapped and enslaved people.
Our past as a country has not always matched our ideals. For example, in the late 30s, a boatload of Jewish children were returned to their death at the hands of the Nazis. We imprisoned people of Japanese ancestry during WWII while we seized their homes and businesses.
Some of you need to study history. Many of you sound like members of the Know Nothing Party who were appalled by the arrival of Catholics and Jews in NY.
So many on Long Island have been sipping Trump's noxious Kool Aid. Trump - the Nouveau Ariviste who's father was a Klan member, protested Irish Catholic cops and the first Italian Americans to buy a home in Jamaica Estates.
Lol no you need to study history. We are built on a nation forged by COLONISTS. Not immigrants. There was no established nation with borders and immigration laws when colonists first arrived here from Europe, just primitive scattered native tribes who didn’t have the capability to hold their land (pretty much the story of how every nation on earth was forged through blood and conquest). In the following centuries we allowed several immigrant waves to benefit US expansionism both literally and economically after each wave we typically shut off the floodgates. Immigration should only exist to benefit us, it should never become a burden on the taxpayers. We have every right as a country to have an enforce our immigration laws otherwise why even have borders?
Last edited by peconic117; 05-09-2021 at 11:22 AM..
What do you believe is the going rate for a day laborer off the street? Do you even know? And do you really even believe that people are lining up for these service industry jobs?
Have to ask, because your statements are so disconnected with reality, as was your suggestion. I put up a post article on the labor issue in Long Island - feel free to read it before you answer.
It is because they live in such substandard conditions, with 10 to a house as others have complained about. Places like Bay Shore or Uniondale exist because of this. Consequently, when they disappear it becomes the next issue - why is everything so expensive.
Day laborers are only a portion of the jobs that illegal aliens perform, and they're still being paid AT LEAST minimum wage. Since business owners seem to find it so difficult to pay people decent wages, they're hiring these people for tons of unskilled to low-skilled jobs.
Illegal aliens are most highly represented in construction, as well as the service industry. These are not day laborers. They're earning decent wages. Wages that SHOULD be paid to Americans, but for Chamber of Commerce shills such as yourself that want to keep the supply of cheap labor flowing.
OH NO THE BUSINESS OWNERS! Screw them. If you can't afford to hire Americans you should be out of business.
The difference is one group lives in Mansions(owns their house), drives luxury cars and actually has the means and shouldn't qualify.
I bring up Jews because I grew up in Brooklyn and it was a recurrent theme many are familiar with - a family driving up in a new Mercedes/Minivan, and paying for groceries with an EBT card.
If my husband were to die, I would be one of those people who owns their home, drives a nice car and will be paying for groceries with an EBT. Not knowing me, if you saw me roll up to the supermarket in my son's Brooklyn neighborhood, would you assume I was scamming the system?
Day laborers are only a portion of the jobs that illegal aliens perform, and they're still being paid AT LEAST minimum wage. Since business owners seem to find it so difficult to pay people decent wages, they're hiring these people for tons of unskilled to low-skilled jobs.
Illegal aliens are most highly represented in construction, as well as the service industry. These are not day laborers. They're earning decent wages. Wages that SHOULD be paid to Americans, but for Chamber of Commerce shills such as yourself that want to keep the supply of cheap labor flowing.
OH NO THE BUSINESS OWNERS! Screw them. If you can't afford to hire Americans you should be out of business.
Construction jobs are day laborer jobs - at least to me. Going rate is around $130 ish for about 10 hours but could be up to 12. Based off your comments, at least minimum wage -they why go with an illegal if you paying base rate anyways? It is the shortage of workers willing to perform the job. It is supply and demand, consistency of workers and turnover of workers you get with one vs the other.
You can't pay an American, if they don't want the job. How is that concept foreign to you? More important, paying is not the issue. These business owners clearly are paying people - right. It is finding the right people to pay. I don't own a business, so I can't be a Chamber of Commerce schill - whatever that even means. I am being pragmatic about it. It has nothing to do with cheap labor, what good does cheap labor do you if you have to take time, effort to constantly fix and replace. It is the fact illegals work so hard, and won't complain and turnover less. It provides stability for these small business owners.
SO a non business owner is giving advice to a business owners, making demands of them, when said person lacks any understanding - you are the problem, not the illegal immigrants. Your excessive hubris prevents your from actually learning something.
If my husband were to die, I would be one of those people who owns their home, drives a nice car and will be paying for groceries with an EBT. Not knowing me, if you saw me roll up to the supermarket in my son's Brooklyn neighborhood, would you assume I was scamming the system?
I'd probably wouldn't even notice you. I made the point to better understand one of the commenters distaste for illegals. Because abuse of the system happens at all ends.
Also, a nice car is relative, so unless you were rocking a newer S or G class, and paying with an EBT card, I'd probably be silently thinking, please move faster lady or step to the side.
To be specific, I was actually thinking of the Sheepshead/Brighton area of Brooklyn. Where you see a Russian Jewish grandma pull up in an S class, with a fur coat and pay with an EBT card.
Construction jobs are day laborer jobs - at least to me. Going rate is around $130 ish for about 10 hours but could be up to 12. Based off your comments, at least minimum wage -they why go with an illegal if you paying base rate anyways? It is the shortage of workers willing to perform the job. It is supply and demand, consistency of workers and turnover of workers you get with one vs the other.
You can't pay an American, if they don't want the job. How is that concept foreign to you? More important, paying is not the issue. These business owners clearly are paying people - right. It is finding the right people to pay. I don't own a business, so I can't be a Chamber of Commerce schill - whatever that even means. I am being pragmatic about it. It has nothing to do with cheap labor, what good does cheap labor do you if you have to take time, effort to constantly fix and replace. It is the fact illegals work so hard, and won't complain and turnover less. It provides stability for these small business owners.
SO a non business owner is giving advice to a business owners, making demands of them, when said person lacks any understanding - you are the problem, not the illegal immigrants. Your excessive hubris prevents your from actually learning something.
Is the thought of paying people higher wages to attract Americans so far gone that it hasn’t even occurred to you? Construction workers, factory workers, etc. used to earn enough to support home ownership and their spouse staying home with multiple children in a decent working class town. Their real wages have declined precipitously as the ruling class shipped those jobs overseas and decided to import unskilled laborers who they could pay... $130 for 12 hours of construction work? Really? That’s your standard? If those unskilled laborers had any sense they’d beat you to death with their shovels. The reason they don’t is because they are living 10 to a house and sending money home to their county of origin, where many will return to spend their $130 a day in retirement. And $130 a day goes pretty far in Guatemala. This will be subsidized by taxpayers when they have kids, who will be US citizens and thus entitled to a host of tax-funded social programs. This is not a sustainable model for the US.
We don’t need to accept the standards of the business owners, who have been undercutting the labor market for decades. We have significant unemployment in this country and even more drastic underemployment that needs to be remedied. Legislate living wages and hang anyone who is caught breaking the law.
Is the thought of paying people higher wages to attract Americans so far gone that it hasn’t even occurred to you? Construction workers, factory workers, etc. used to earn enough to support home ownership and their spouse staying home with multiple children in a decent working class town. Their real wages have declined precipitously as the ruling class shipped those jobs overseas and decided to import unskilled laborers who they could pay... $130 for 12 hours of construction work? Really? That’s your standard? If those unskilled laborers had any sense they’d beat you to death with their shovels. The reason they don’t is because they are living 10 to a house and sending money home to their county of origin, where many will return to spend their $130 a day in retirement. And $130 a day goes pretty far in Guatemala. This will be subsidized by taxpayers when they have kids, who will be US citizens and thus entitled to a host of tax-funded social programs. This is not a sustainable model for the US.
We don’t need to accept the standards of the business owners, who have been undercutting the labor market for decades. We have significant unemployment in this country and even more drastic underemployment that needs to be remedied. Legislate living wages and hang anyone who is caught breaking the law.
You keep on referencing higher wages - at least reference what you mean or a range. Is it $1-$5 dollars? There is a point where margins are so tight, it wouldn't even make sense to even be in business anymore, or they would have to charge so much more, that they begin to loose their customer base. The other side of it is, business owners have tried to raise wages but their is no significant gain on retention, skill or performance - you stick with the lesser known evil that keeps you competitive. Try to hire someone in an entry level job first, otherwise your comments are just noise.
IE Supermarket in West Coast that decided to close 4 stores recently, due to a mandatory wage hike of $4 p/h. They would be unprofitable and have decided to close instead.
$130 is not my standard. I was taking your words. You specifically stated, illegals were paid a wage above the standard. I was questioning you on that and the one to cite their pay! Secondary to that, they work 6 days a week and live with like 10 others to a house.
Labor report came out last week, where we generated only 266k jobs vs the 1mm expected. This week's report is going to be released in mins. The story it tells is not of the business owner but the cultural aspects of our country's labor market. Business owners are part of a larger system, whereby American laborers(unskilled) do not want the jobs posted. It is a shift that happened decades ago, your complaining and lack of understanding will not change that.
You keep on referencing higher wages - at least reference what you mean or a range. Is it $1-$5 dollars? There is a point where margins are so tight, it wouldn't even make sense to even be in business anymore, or they would have to charge so much more, that they begin to loose their customer base. The other side of it is, business owners have tried to raise wages but their is no significant gain on retention, skill or performance - you stick with the lesser known evil that keeps you competitive. Try to hire someone in an entry level job first, otherwise your comments are just noise.
IE Supermarket in West Coast that decided to close 4 stores recently, due to a mandatory wage hike of $4 p/h. They would be unprofitable and have decided to close instead.
$130 is not my standard. I was taking your words. You specifically stated, illegals were paid a wage above the standard. I was questioning you on that and the one to cite their pay! Secondary to that, they work 6 days a week and live with like 10 others to a house.
Simply googling "average wages of illegal immigrant" would have given you this and many other results, rather than just typing garbage you may have read ten years ago. Long story short is that there isn't much of a wage gap between citizens and non-citizens for equivalent work.
Circling back though, again, if these jobs are so hard to fill, how did we do it for centuries before the borders were thrown open in the 1960s? As I said, because we used to pay construction workers and factory laborers enough to support an entire American family. You have not explained why that is no longer possible, except for (cue sad violin music) business owners have TRIED! Sure they have.
I'm not an economist. I don't know what the "right" number is to attract Americans. That's for the market to figure out. If all businesses are playing by the same rules, they'll ALL be able to raise wages high enough to attract citizen labor, because their competitors won't be undercutting them with cheap scab labor. They won't go out of business, because people will have no where else to go to purchase things. And their customer base will expand dramatically, as they build back the middle class that we used to have with higher wages.
Quote:
Labor report came out last week, where we generated only 266k jobs vs the 1mm expected. This week's report is going to be released in mins. The story it tells is not of the business owner but the cultural aspects of our country's labor market. Business owners are part of a larger system, whereby American laborers(unskilled) do not want the jobs posted. It is a shift that happened decades ago, your complaining and lack of understanding will not change that.
Of course they're part of a larger system. There are all sorts of structural issues that need to be solved. High tariffs on imported goods would help (as the stick) with tax breaks for domestic employers (as the carrot) for one. Strict penalties on business owners for hiring non-citizens. Wealth taxes on the billionaire class and mandatory taxes on any corporation that attempts to sell goods or provide services in the US, regardless of where it's based. I'm not expecting that we can just tell businesses to raise their wages in a vacuum. But it needs to be done, or we're not going to have a country left, just a giant soulless marketplace to consume goods whilst fighting amongst each other.
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