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Where can I find a Mexican for $130 for 10-12 hours on Long Island?
That's about the going rate for a Central American helper although I don't know if you would get 12 hours out of work from them....more like say, 7 to 5 or so. The main guy (who usually speaks English and is more skilled) would get the bulk of the $$ for the job...of course the higher the skill the more you would pay.
Simply googling "average wages of illegal immigrant" would have given you this and many other results, rather than just typing garbage you may have read ten years ago. Long story short is that there isn't much of a wage gap between citizens and non-citizens for equivalent work.
Circling back though, again, if these jobs are so hard to fill, how did we do it for centuries before the borders were thrown open in the 1960s? As I said, because we used to pay construction workers and factory laborers enough to support an entire American family. You have not explained why that is no longer possible, except for (cue sad violin music) business owners have TRIED! Sure they have.
I'm not an economist. I don't know what the "right" number is to attract Americans. That's for the market to figure out. If all businesses are playing by the same rules, they'll ALL be able to raise wages high enough to attract citizen labor, because their competitors won't be undercutting them with cheap scab labor. They won't go out of business, because people will have no where else to go to purchase things. And their customer base will expand dramatically, as they build back the middle class that we used to have with higher wages.
Sigh - you don't even realize that you are negating your own argument. If wages are the similar, then why pay an immigrant or an illegal? It is quality and consistency of work. It is not a difficult concept.
You might be a parent. Say your baby sitter is late, doesn't call when she can't make it, barely helps your child with any tasks - do you keep her or even try to spend your time trying hire a replacement in your budget that may perform similarly? Or do you take that same wage and see what a good worker, though illegal can do? In the end, all you want is a good worker, regardless of legal or not. That is why the pay would be similar. It isn't a tough concept, reread it twice if the first time fails.
It is called industrialization. We became a country of cheap goods, and transitioned to a service economy. You probably learned about Ford and the production line, well he produced goods in a much quicker manner that reduced the need for skilled labor(guilds) It also drastically reduced the time it took to produce these goods - make sense yet. Well all these skilled jobs were no longer needed. You need less people, and could pay less skilled workers due to the manufacturing process.
You only brought up one scenario and hence your limited ability to think critically - the market can adjust and businesses will pay higher wages, but it is not likely or the only thing that can happen. People will likely consume less and less as their discretionary spending is directly impacted, consequently; said businesses will slowly close and no void will be filled.
Don't condescend me, midwit. I fully understand how we got "here" and it has everything to do with globalism and the profiteering of the globalist class, and very little to do with automation or natural market forces (as if assembling cars or high priced electronics is a skilled job no longer needed by non-Asians).
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Sigh - you don't even realize that you are negating your own argument. If wages are the similar, then why pay an immigrant or an illegal? It is quality and consistency of work. It is not a difficult concept.
I stopped here. There is no debating with someone who doesn't see the value of employing their countrymen over illegal scabs. How many times I have heard this ridiculous position advanced in the agriculture and food industry. We pay them all the same (however many peanuts an hour) but only the Mexicans will do the work. Of course! And with no Mexicans available you would be forced to pay a wage that would attract better native workers. But since that might dampen bonuses, you advocate simply cheating.
Aside from the grueling disingenuousness of your ratio-based logic, there is also the utter solipsism. Whatever is best for business owners is best. Not even the vaguest acknowledgement of other civic responsibilities or interests of non-business owners who have a stake in the composition of their country. There are such people?
Don't condescend me, midwit. I fully understand how we got "here" and it has everything to do with globalism and the profiteering of the globalist class, and very little to do with automation or natural market forces (as if assembling cars or high priced electronics is a skilled job no longer needed by non-Asians).
I stopped here. There is no debating with someone who doesn't see the value of employing their countrymen over illegal scabs. How many times I have heard this ridiculous position advanced in the agriculture and food industry. We pay them all the same (however many peanuts an hour) but only the Mexicans will do the work. Of course! And with no Mexicans available you would be forced to pay a wage that would attract better native workers. But since that might dampen bonuses, you advocate simply cheating.
Aside from the grueling disingenuousness of your ratio-based logic, there is also the utter solipsism. Whatever is best for business owners is best. Not even the vaguest acknowledgement of other civic responsibilities or interests of non-business owners who have a stake in the composition of their country. There are such people?
You should consider reading some other textbooks that offer a differing position because history does not favor your theory. There is a reason why there is never an overwhelming rebellion of the elite class, and redistribution of wealth as the Communist Manifesto predicted would take place. A middle class formed, that became a buffer, and also the "opportunity" to bridge the wealth gap.
What you don't understand is I agree, we should be paying Americans more but it can't and won't just happen. It is an ideal that sounds great but not even a viable option. That is not me, that is what our society has transcended towards. Complaining about it won't change that! Only when you recognize that it exist, can you make real suggestions towards favorable conditions that would employ more American.
You don't read well, nor do you see past your own thinking. I am not in favor of the businessman, I never was. As I stated, I am pragmatic about the situation and recognize that our history has created what we see and experience today. There is no time machine I am aware of or magic potion that will alter that or create a different American society that is not dependent on immigrant labor.
If my husband were to die, I would be one of those people who owns their home, drives a nice car and will be paying for groceries with an EBT. Not knowing me, if you saw me roll up to the supermarket in my son's Brooklyn neighborhood, would you assume I was scamming the system?
Time to get out of NY. NY is giving $15,600 to illegal workers. WTF is happening? The world has gone nuts, especially NY. Say hi to even higher taxes, while these leachers don't pay a dime.
If you didn't hire them there would be no incentive to come. Sure there isn't a landscaper or housecleaner you're supporting that is undocumented. What about the dishwashers and bus boys at your favorite restaurant?
If you didn't hire them there would be no incentive to come. Sure there isn't a landscaper or housecleaner you're supporting that is undocumented. What about the dishwashers and bus boys at your favorite restaurant?
Not everyone hires illegals. I enjoy taking care of my own lawn, I don’t need a housekeeper. And the restaurant thing is ridiculous what are you supposed to do? Check everyone’s immigration status at a restaurant? Also news flash not everyone working as a busboy or in a restaurant is illegal either.
Lol no you need to study history. We are built on a nation forged by COLONISTS. Not immigrants. There was no established nation with borders and immigration laws when colonists first arrived here from Europe, just primitive scattered native tribes who didn’t have the capability to hold their land (pretty much the story of how every nation on earth was forged through blood and conquest). In the following centuries we allowed several immigrant waves to benefit US expansionism both literally and economically after each wave we typically shut off the floodgates. Immigration should only exist to benefit us, it should never become a burden on the taxpayers. We have every right as a country to have an enforce our immigration laws otherwise why even have borders?
COLONISTS? Really? Is that what you call them? Tell that to the Native Americans who's land we took and who's culture we destroyed.
Colonists. Settlers (what liar Ann Coulter called her ancestors) immigrants all the same thing.
I don't care if your ancestors were Puritans or arrived in the 1920s - EVERYONE is an IMMIGRANT - with the exception of Native Americans and formerly enslaved people.
They are all "from somewhere else".
Americans - all of us - are from somewhere else. Now read the definition of "immigrant".
COLONISTS? Really? Is that what you call them? Tell that to the Native Americans who's land we took and who's culture we destroyed.
Colonists. Settlers (what liar Ann Coulter called her ancestors) immigrants all the same thing.
I don't care if your ancestors were Puritans or arrived in the 1920s - EVERYONE is an IMMIGRANT - with the exception of Native Americans and formerly enslaved people.
They are all "from somewhere else".
Americans - all of us - are from somewhere else. Now read the definition of "immigrant".
Sure.
Immigrant: a person who comes to live in a foreign COUNTRY.
Guess what? There was no defined country here when the original colonists arrived, and yes that is what I will call them because that’s EXACTLY what they were. Colonists who brought civilization to a mostly uninhabited land with scattered primitive tribes. So stop with the nation of immigrants crap because that’s not what this country was founded by.
Land we took and culture we destroyed? Lol Welcome to the real world. Sorry history isn’t all roses and sunshine and makes you feel icky. Crack open a history book about historic bloody conquests in Asia, Europe or Africa (and I’m talking pre colonial era), or maybe just go to your safe space and pretend just this country has a violent history.
Stop already
Biden ran stating he would allow the illegals in and take care of them.
This is what happening
This is what the majority of US voters wanted
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzook
Time to get out of NY. NY is giving $15,600 to illegal workers. WTF is happening? The world has gone nuts, especially NY. Say hi to even higher taxes, while these leachers don't pay a dime.
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