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Old 01-05-2023, 11:32 AM
NDL
 
Location: The CLT area
4,518 posts, read 5,655,736 times
Reputation: 3120

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarl View Post
For example, after Hurricane Sandy I wired a pigtail to the gun on my boiler so I could just plug it into my generator with an extension cord, so we had heat for the 2 weeks with no power.
American ingenuity at it's finest
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Old 01-05-2023, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,292 posts, read 4,775,033 times
Reputation: 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It would have been great if the US had continued to be at the forefront of solar panel production and had reaped the benefits of production learnings and economies of scale for it, but this somehow became a political hot topic with people with no idea what they're talking about sneering at any mention of renewable energy. Oh well!

That would've been great for national security and depending on the level of support could have made petrostates like Russia far less powerful and less capable of waging war. Instead, we have what we have now, but at least there's a silver lining where our main allies and large trading partners have shifted greatly towards renewable energy, and in Japan's case, back to nuclear energy. I also think we can walk and chew gum and still help homeowners retrofit their homes with solar panels. The Inflation Reduction Act extended the federal tax credits that can be used for home solar rather than the phase out and then removal that was originally slated to happen. There's also separate credits for electric panel / breaker box upgrades and home energy batteries. It also has a credit for heat pumps!

A decentralized grid with a lot of households able to run on solar panels, store it, send it to the grid at times, etc. is going to be pretty neat and is a worthwhile goal. However, if that's a good goal, then investing further into expanding and then having to be on the hook for maintaining natural gas to end users is a bad investment as the natural gas furnace doesn't do anything with the solar panels. It makes a lot more sense to invest in localized storage and distribution of electricity and hardening the utility scale grid.

Regardless, I do want to communicate that there are cold climate oriented heat pumps that very much up to the task in at least up to Long Island levels of winter cold, and they are comparatively so efficient compared to natural gas furnaces that it's more efficient use of natural gas resources to use the natural gas in a combined cycle electric generation plant and transmit and distribute it. I've posted links to this coming at it from various angles whether randos showing off their systems online in far colder climates, to research papers and industry tests, to spec sheets of actual models, to adoption rates in climates that have colder winters than that found in the Tri-State Area. I guess for some people their views on this, despite having no experience with cold climate heat pumps, aren't going to change unless someone immediately close to them they trust installs such, so I thank you for a refreshingly civil and open-minded take on this even as you came in with past experiences that differed.
It wasn't for lack of trying. Read up on it, in the 2000's and going into the Obama years there was a big explosion in US solar producing panel producing companies, most of which were backed by government subsidies. Guess what happened? Almost all of them went belly up/bankrupt (including many in Europe) for various reasons. Now almost all solar panels are either made or owned by Chinese companies and almost nothing in the US.
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Old 01-05-2023, 12:38 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,157 posts, read 39,441,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117 View Post
It wasn't for lack of trying. Read up on it, in the 2000's and going into the Obama years there was a big explosion in US solar producing panel producing companies, most of which were backed by government subsidies. Guess what happened? Almost all of them went belly up/bankrupt (including many in Europe) for various reasons. Now almost all solar panels are either made or owned by Chinese companies and almost nothing in the US.
Yea, the subsidies were discarded and there was no further support while China's government continued the support and saw the opportunity to both create a large industrial base where they can export products and greatly improve national security by having another reliable source of domestic power generation. They had broad-based incentives programs and most companies participated in it and most either bit it or were bought out by others as the market consolidated similarly to what happened in the US, but they continued the support and swooped in to buy patents when we did not. That's the failure I'm talking about, and it was incredibly stupid and part of the fickle nature of US policy where one election year and some group can make a big fuss about something they know little about but can make great sound bites then scuttles years even decades of earlier work.
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Old 01-05-2023, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Nassau County
5,292 posts, read 4,775,033 times
Reputation: 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, the subsidies were discarded and there was no further support while China's government continued the support and saw the opportunity to both create a large industrial base where they can export products and greatly improve national security by having another reliable source of domestic power generation. They had broad-based incentives programs and most companies participated in it and most either bit it or were bought out by others as the market consolidated similarly to what happened in the US, but they continued the support and swooped in to buy patents when we did not. That's the failure I'm talking about, and it was incredibly stupid.
Yep and now we pretty much don't make solar panels at all! Even though we were the ones that invented and advanced the early tech.
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Old 01-05-2023, 05:05 PM
 
31,927 posts, read 27,007,597 times
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Oh there is still plenty of federal funds sloshing about for solar if you but know where to look.

https://www.americanexperiment.org/s...0000-per-acre/

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles...ing-in-the-u-s

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...th-2022-11-10/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/ho...-photovoltaics

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvem...edit-by-state/
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Old 01-05-2023, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Stony Brook
2,897 posts, read 4,409,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117 View Post
Yep and now we pretty much don't make solar panels at all! Even though we were the ones that invented and advanced the early tech.
Isn't that typical these days?
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Old 01-06-2023, 08:25 AM
 
3,526 posts, read 5,708,301 times
Reputation: 2556
Somebody please explain to me how they expect people to retrofit their homes for heat pumps...

Heat pumps are typically used for forced hot air systems which is fine if that is what you have or you have central A/C.

What about people who are using baseboards or radiators... or even worse. older homes using steam heat and radiators.
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Old 01-06-2023, 08:49 AM
 
2,685 posts, read 2,332,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agw123 View Post
Somebody please explain to me how they expect people to retrofit their homes for heat pumps...

Heat pumps are typically used for forced hot air systems which is fine if that is what you have or you have central A/C.

What about people who are using baseboards or radiators... or even worse. older homes using steam heat and radiators.
Then you get to spend insane amounts of $$ to comply with states soon ban on gas and oil heating methods! Or just never switch since it will be cheaper to just repair what you have.
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Old 01-06-2023, 08:51 AM
Status: "UB Tubbie" (set 27 days ago)
 
20,060 posts, read 20,872,330 times
Reputation: 16764
Quote:
Originally Posted by agw123 View Post
Somebody please explain to me how they expect people to retrofit their homes for heat pumps...

Heat pumps are typically used for forced hot air systems which is fine if that is what you have or you have central A/C.

What about people who are using baseboards or radiators... or even worse. older homes using steam heat and radiators.
Meh. If it came down to it, there’d be grants and tax coupons.
Like they do with the new fangled fancy hi-tech septic systems.
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Old 01-06-2023, 12:14 PM
 
2,685 posts, read 2,332,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarl View Post
Meh. If it came down to it, there’d be grants and tax coupons.
Like they do with the new fangled fancy hi-tech septic systems.
They can do that, like electric cars they raise the price so after tax credits it’s still the same price.
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