Poll: Most People Want County's Minimum Wage at $15.25 (Freedom: real estate, house)

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Originally Posted by disgruntled la native

I'm checking both your privilege. You two are probably the most privileged posters on this forum yet make the wildest comments, so it's only fair to try to challenge what you say.

And when people challenged what you said...and yet no response from you?

[MordinSolus]

Originally Posted by disgruntled la native

I'm checking both your privilege. You two are probably the most privileged posters on this forum yet make the wildest comments, so it's only fair to try to challenge what you say.

You didn't challenge what I said, you challenged me. You have no idea who I am or what I do, think or believe. You just decided that I'm "privileged" and that that's good enough to argue. You're an ignoramus who isn't capable of having an intelligent, informed discussion. You speak in platitudes and baseless conjecture. Go away.

[True Freedom]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

Because it's an employers job market. Employers don't have to pay better wages because workers have no bargaining power or leverage. This isn't like the post-WWII job market where we had a labor shortage.

I would say this depends on which job sectors. In tech, there is a shortage of high skilled, good people. So much so that there are expedited visa processes for foreign tech workers, proposals to grease the skids to keep recently US educated foreign grads in the country, and for those of us already here .. we get hit up by recruiters several times per week. I have a good gig right now, but if I wanted to jump ship, I could do it tomorrow.

Our economy is changing. Different skillsets are in demand. Those who do not adapt will be left behind

[MordinSolus]

Originally Posted by True Freedom

I would say this depends on which job sectors. In tech, there is a shortage of high skilled, good people. So much so that there are expedited visa processes for foreign tech workers, proposals to grease the skids to keep recently US educated foreign grads in the country, and for those of us already here .. we get hit up by recruiters several times per week. I have a good gig right now, but if I wanted to jump ship, I could do it tomorrow.

Our economy is changing. Different skillsets are in demand. Those who do not adapt will be left behind

High skilled tech positions are a minuscule portion of the job market. They're pretty irrelevant when discussing the job market as a whole.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by True Freedom

Our economy is changing. Different skillsets are in demand. Those who do not adapt will be left behind

And if everyone - or even the majority - "adapted", most will still be "left behind" anyway. Because that is the future: demands for greater productivity from fewer and fewer workers in a world of increasing automation and efficiency, feeding all wealth to a very small percentage of oligarchs.

Leaders in the world of technology and AI and business all pretty much agree that within as soon as the next 15 years, another full 1/3 of the workforce will be replaced by robot functions. It's a truly brain-dead strategy that all in tech and business are following: eliminating labor and meaning from life in the idiotic illusion that all will be replaced by leisure happiness and immortality.

Problem is: humanity sucks at leisure without meaning. And self realization as an alternative requires the casting off of desires. Another thing humans suck at.

[True Freedom]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

High skilled tech positions are a minuscule portion of the job market. They're pretty irrelevant when discussing the job market as a whole.

Here's one study showing tech is >5% of the US workforce: TechAmerica Foundation : Cyberstates: The Definitive State-by-State Analysis of the U.S. High-Tech Industry

If that's the national average, tech heavy states like CA would likely have a higher percentage. I hardly think this is minuscule to the point of being irrelevant.. but whatever.

[True Freedom]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And if everyone - or even the majority - "adapted", most will still be "left behind" anyway. Because that is the future: demands for greater productivity from fewer and fewer workers in a world of increasing automation and efficiency, feeding all wealth to a very small percentage of oligarchs.

Leaders in the world of technology and AI and business all pretty much agree that within as soon as the next 15 years, another full 1/3 of the workforce will be replaced by robot functions. It's a truly brain-dead strategy that all in tech and business are following: eliminating labor and meaning from life in the idiotic illusion that all will be replaced by leisure happiness and immortality.

Problem is: humanity sucks at leisure without meaning. And self realization as an alternative requires the casting off of desires. Another thing humans suck at.

As industries become mechanized or automated, new industries spring up. Take auto manufacturing: sure, many of the low-skilled repetitive assembly positions have been eliminated, but people have to design, build, maintain, troubleshoot, etc these machines. Those folks walking around with a wrench in their hand crying "where's my job" were left behind by their co-workers who went out, got retrained and increased their skillsets. Others moved to other emerging industries.

Of course, this argument against mechanization/ technology advancement has been advanced for a hundred years now. The US could have eschewed technology, but think where we would be now had we done that...

[MordinSolus]

Originally Posted by True Freedom

Here's one study showing tech is >5% of the US workforce: TechAmerica Foundation : Cyberstates: The Definitive State-by-State Analysis of the U.S. High-Tech Industry

If that's the national average, tech heavy states like CA would likely have a higher percentage. I hardly think this is minuscule to the point of being irrelevant.. but whatever.

That's all tech jobs. You're talking about high paying, high skill tech jobs.

[True Freedom]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

That's all tech jobs. You're talking about high paying, high skill tech jobs.

well, seems to me the discussions in this thread were conflating the erosion of the middle class and the minimum wage, union busting, labor glut at the low end, etc.

I was chiming in on the middle class stuff.. which is where most of these high tech jobs are ... but hey, I'm easily confused, so y'all carry on.
Thanks.

[ashpelham]

Sorry. No other solution works except to raise the income tax rates on the wealthy.

Raising minimum wage is passing the cost on to those who have to PAY the minimum wage to their employees, and will then be passed on to the products we buy.

And then they will take those 15.25 cent jobs and move them to China.

And the wealth barons will take their money to Switzerland or China or wherever they think they will get to keep most of it.

What the wealthy don't understand, and they should, as they are some of our more intelligent and creative minds in the world, is that there IS A COST for their ever-increasing wealth and incomes. That money is either being created by a government who needs to pay back it's debts, or you are taking money from private sources, for a product or service you provide. They will need more money to buy more, and they get that money through their work.

Who can beat this system? Those engaged in illegal, untaxed, non-competitive business. Sign me up.