LAPD Will Not Work With Trump Administration: Beck (Homeland: rent, motel)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

First off dealing with illegals that do contribute to the criminal stats by deporting them might lower the overall crime rates. At least the portion that they're contributing to, no? Especially drug dealers and gang members.

Secondly, I was under the assumption that Trumps rhetoric was that an open border brings about crime and drugs. Not that ALL illegal aliens were committing crimes. Even so the stats still show that some illegals do commit crimes. So is enforcing the existing laws on the books to do something about it xenophobic?

I'm seriously asking you not just debating

I agree mostly on all points you just stated.

Deporting illegals will reduce the number of overall violent (and other) crimes committed because there will be fewer people committing crimes, yes. It won't reduce the [violent] crime rate, however. It would slightly increase the rate, since the rate of violent crimes is measured per capita population and illegals commit at lower rates than the general population. But yes, crime totals would go down, which is never a bad thing.

The rhetoric that the cause of crime and drugs is from open borders is - nonsense. Crime exists regardless of open borders. Drug crimes especially thrive on there being a market for drugs, which Americans provide regardless of border conditions.

There is certainly nothing wrong with enforcing existing laws. I'm all for it.

Falsely attributing the degree and rate of crime to illegals is xenophobic and begs public hysterical reaction and xenophobic reaction. It is an unhealthy way to approach the problems of immigration and crime both. Lies suck. That simple. ANd administrations that are willing to use lies to leverage whatever can't be trusted in other areas of governance either.

If you are focused on reducing the rate of crime, given that the general legal population commits these crimes at a higher rate than illegals, logic informs you that you must go after the greatest source first.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I agree mostly on all points you just stated.

Deporting illegals will reduce the number of overall violent (and other) crimes committed because there will be fewer people committing crimes, yes. It won't reduce the [violent] crime rate, however. It would slightly increase the rate, since the rate of violent crimes is measured per capita population and illegals commit at lower rates than the general population. But yes, crime totals would go down, which is never a bad thing.

The rhetoric that the cause of crime and drugs is from open borders is - nonsense. Crime exists regardless of open borders. Drug crimes especially thrive on there being a market for drugs, which Americans provide regardless of border conditions.

There is certainly nothing wrong with enforcing existing laws. I'm all for it.

Falsely attributing the degree and rate of crime to illegals is xenophobic and begs public hysterical reaction and xenophobic reaction. It is an unhealthy way to approach the problems of immigration and crime both. Lies suck. That simple. ANd administrations that are willing to use lies to leverage whatever can't be trusted in other areas of governance either.

If you are focused on reducing the rate of crime, given that the general legal population commits these crimes at a higher rate than illegals, logic informs you that you must go after the greatest source first.

I never got the impression that Trump was trying to say that open borders are the cause of all crime and drugs just that open borders bring or better worded allow for criminals and drugs to enter. As in we have enough to deal with here as it is, why deal with it coming from another country too.

I could be wrong but that's what I got out of what he was saying, or in essence the entire conservative argument regarding illegal immigration. People on the left don't even like it when you refer to illegals as illegals.

[Hippityhop]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

I never got the impression that Trump was trying to say that open borders are the cause of all crime and drugs just that open borders bring or better worded allow for criminals and drugs to enter. As in we have enough to deal with here as it is, why deal with it coming from another country too.

I could be wrong but that's what I got out of what he was saying, or in essence the entire conservative argument regarding illegal immigration. People on the left don't even like it when you refer to illegals as illegals.

Can you please explain to me how we have open borders?

[Cream1]

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

Can you please explain to me how we have open borders?

Take a walk through Pacoima or Pico-Union.

[Hippityhop]

Originally Posted by Cream1

Take a walk through Pacoima or Pico-Union.

So you don't know what an open border policy is. Glad you chose to share your ignorance with the rest of us.

Anybody else?

[jm1982]

Has Garcetti explained to the residents and voters of L.A how he will LA will be fine if we lose funding from federal government ?
More taxes ?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

I never got the impression that Trump was trying to say that open borders are the cause of all crime and drugs just that open borders bring or better worded allow for criminals and drugs to enter. As in we have enough to deal with here as it is, why deal with it coming from another country too.

I could be wrong but that's what I got out of what he was saying, or in essence the entire conservative argument regarding illegal immigration. People on the left don't even like it when you refer to illegals as illegals.

I didn't say he said "all crime". You brought it up in those simplistic terms - even though I knew you didn't mean it that way. I merely responded in simplistic kind to your post.

Anyway, I don't suggest we should accept illegal immigration or whatever amount of crime it adds, either. I am saying that viciously irresponsible xenophobic rhetoric and lies aren't a good way to deal with any of those issues. Lies as a methodology never are.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I didn't say he said "all crime". You brought it up in those simplistic terms - even though I knew you didn't mean it that way. I merely responded in simplistic kind to your post.

Anyway, I don't suggest we should accept illegal immigration or whatever amount of crime it adds, either. I am saying that viciously irresponsible xenophobic rhetoric and lies aren't a good way to deal with any of those issues. Lies as a methodology never are.

Wait you just said that: The rhetoric that the cause of crime and drugs is from open borders is - nonsense. Crime exists regardless of open borders. Drug crimes especially thrive on there being a market for drugs, which Americans provide regardless of border conditions.

I never brought up it being all crime. I thought I was responding to you bringing that up.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

Can you please explain to me how we have open borders?

It's mostly a term used for lax immigration laws or lack of enforcement of current laws on the books.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Wait you just said that: The rhetoric that the cause of crime and drugs is from open borders is - nonsense. Crime exists regardless of open borders. Drug crimes especially thrive on there being a market for drugs, which Americans provide regardless of border conditions.

I never brought up it being all crime. I thought I was responding to you bringing that up.

Dunno. Here's what you posted that I responded to:

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Secondly, I was under the assumption that Trumps rhetoric was that an open border brings about crime and drugs.

I responded with:

The rhetoric that the cause of crime and drugs is from open borders is - nonsense.

Neither you nor I said "all". So what? I guess you are suggesting I should have said "a cause" instead of "the cause"? Whatever. I don't see how this little minutia is important to the conversation?