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Oh please. Just admit you're wrong and apologize. You challenged me, and not only did I bolster my argument, so did your friend 2sleepy. I won fair and square, and that's that. If it pleases you to believe otherwise, however, I cannot stop you from doing so. Have a good night.
Ok, I’ll play some more. Your argument was that the beach closures are a result of dangerous bacteria from homeless people washing down into the ocean along the beaches. *sigh*. You provided exactly zero evidence. And 2Sleepy’s post provided exactly zero evidence of your point’s proposed validity.
You also wrote that had I lived in LA I would have heard about the beach closures. I replied that I likely would not have (since I don’t watch tv or listen to much local radio) ... but that, regardless, it makes no difference to your core (false) point about homelessness being a source of the beach closure problem ... since you can’t cite one single supporting piece of evidence.
Now, before you trot in with trying to make the case that homeless people contribute bactria to the environment ... therefore some must wash to the sea and be part of the stew ... I will point out that ALL people are made up of bacterial organisms that mix into the environment ... and your challenge is to show that bacteria from homeless people is somehow different and more toxic and dangerous than everyone else’s.
I will look forward to your report from health departments as to their measurements supporting your supposition.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Ok, I’ll play some more. Your argument was that the beach closures are a result of dangerous bacteria from homeless people washing down into the ocean along the beaches. *sigh*. You provided exactly zero evidence. And 2Sleepy’s post provided exactly zero evidence of your point’s proposed validity.
You also wrote that had I lived in LA I would have heard about the beach closures. I replied that I likely would not have (since I don’t watch tv or listen to much local radio) ... but that, regardless, it makes no difference to your core (false) point about homelessness being a source of the beach closure problem ... since you can’t cite one single supporting piece of evidence.
Now, before you trot in with trying to make the case that homeless people contribute bactria to the environment ... therefore some must wash to the sea and be part of the stew ... I will point out that ALL people are made up of bacterial organisms that mix into the environment ... and your challenge is to show that bacteria from homeless people is somehow different and more toxic and dangerous than everyone else’s.
I will look forward to your report from health departments as to their measurements supporting your supposition.
Where do non-homeless people usually relieve themselves? Where do homeless people relieve themselves?
No one raindrop can be blamed for a flood, but each raindrop certainly contributes to it.
Where do non-homeless people usually relieve themselves? Where do homeless people relieve themselves?
No one raindrop can be blamed for a flood, but each raindrop certainly contributes to it.
The fact that some homeless relieve themselves behind dumpsters doesn’t constitute proof of contributing to beach closures. You are talking about an unknown percentage of homeless, but let’s give it a theoretical number for sake of discussion ... say 20% of 55,000 ... or 11,000 people relieving themselves on streets. While in truth many homeless use shelter or other public facilities that connect to sewer systems, call it 11,000.
Out of 10,000,000. Sure.
Now you are suggesting several things unconsidered with your assumption:
1. All that human urine and excrement - or even a measurable amount - makes its way to and through storm sewers. Which is unknown by you ... or you can show otherwise with credible link to reports? Because much is simply absorbed into ambient dirt and dissipates completely harmlessly. That’s a natural process.
2. Whatever amount of human urine/feces actually does wash into sewers is somehow more toxic than the HUGE amount of animal urine and excrement that is deposited on the streets daily in clearly far FAR greater amount ... the pets of 10,000,000 people? Plus all the wild animals from birds (seagulls alone!!) to squirrels, rats, mice, feral cats, stray dogs, opossums, racoons, coyotes, reptiles, amphibians, insects (oh yeah, they poop too).
3. That somehow you can distinguish and quantify the homeless urine/feces from the housed population’s deposited by some drinkers and joggers et al daily behind bushes in parks and alleys behind bars ... consider that it would only take ½ of 1% of the 10,000,000 housed population to equal our homeless number.
4. No sewer system overflows contribute to beach pollution ... (we know they occur)
So, when you can find actual statistically supported data and analysis from the health departments that monitor these factors, publish it in a post for the readers.
Anyone can opine and speculate. Backing it up is what you fail to do. Every time.
The fact that some homeless relieve themselves behind dumpsters doesn’t constitute proof of contributing to beach closures. You are talking about an unknown percentage of homeless, but let’s give it a theoretical number for sake of discussion ... say 20% of 55,000 ... or 11,000 people relieving themselves on streets. While in truth many homeless use shelter or other public facilities that connect to sewer systems, call it 11,000.
Out of 10,000,000. Sure.
Now you are suggesting several things unconsidered with your assumption:
1. All that human urine and excrement - or even a measurable amount - makes its way to and through storm sewers. Which is unknown by you ... or you can show otherwise with credible link to reports? Because much is simply absorbed into ambient dirt and dissipates completely harmlessly. That’s a natural process.
2. Whatever amount of human urine/feces actually does wash into sewers is somehow more toxic than the HUGE amount of animal urine and excrement that is deposited on the streets daily in clearly far FAR greater amount ... the pets of 10,000,000 people? Plus all the wild animals from birds (seagulls alone!!) to squirrels, rats, mice, feral cats, stray dogs, opossums, racoons, coyotes, reptiles, amphibians, insects (oh yeah, they poop too).
3. That somehow you can distinguish and quantify the homeless urine/feces from the housed population’s deposited by some drinkers and joggers et al daily behind bushes in parks and alleys behind bars ... consider that it would only take ½ of 1% of the 10,000,000 housed population to equal our homeless number.
4. No sewer system overflows contribute to beach pollution ... (we know they occur)
So, when you can find actual statistically supported data and analysis from the health departments that monitor these factors, publish it in a post for the readers.
Anyone can opine and speculate. Backing it up is what you fail to do. Every time.
I would say 100% of homeless have relieved themselves outside of a toilet more then once. There are no solid (or liquid) stats on this so we're all guessing.... even you
I would say 100% of homeless have relieved themselves outside of a toilet more then once. There are no solid (or liquid) stats on this so we're all guessing.... even you
And I would point out that a completely HUGE percentage of the general population have also relieved themselves outside of a toilet more than once. In fact, everybody has, at least as children. So what?
Of course it’s “all guessing” ... I acknowledged that by saying so and continuing the speculation with the specific acknowledgement: “for the sake of discussion”.
This entire tangent discussion is based on Exitus’ unfounded speculation - that somehow the beach closures are measurably connected to homlessness when he hasn’t one iota of data or reporting to confirm any such thing.
So I played with his line further to demonstrate his folly.
Exitus enjoys entertaining himself by posting a variety of unfounded accusations against the homeless that he knows are baseless. To him, generating false equivalencies, misunderstandings, and misgivings and fear about homelessness is amusing in the responses he gets.
Quote:
Trolling is defined as creating discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages in an online community. Basically, a social media troll is someone who purposely says something controversial in order to get a rise out of other users.
It might seem then, the best reaction would be to not respond. However, in the case of spreading myths about homelessness, lots of people suffer consequences. Violence against the homeless, including murders, by housed people is a very measurably serious problem - triggered primarily by myths that foster fear and hate.
The homeless are not the only victims who suffer. This antagonism affects how the homeless view the general public in reaction. It also affects the ability to develop solutions to the problems the general public endures as a result of street homelessness.
Thus, because Exitus’ type of personal amusement is unfortunately believeable by certain limited mentalties who read these kinds of degrading false accusations, posts like his serve to incite further violence and limit solutions.
Exitus has at times posted a variety of suggestions to push homeless persons out of helicopters, send them out to sea and abandon them in untended boats, and drive them out of places using electric cattle prods, for examples.
Balancing commentary is called for to offset this.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
The fact that some homeless relieve themselves behind dumpsters doesn’t constitute proof of contributing to beach closures. .
Never said it did. OTOH, no rational person would state that it does not help matters when you have a huge number of people living on the streets and causing a bacterial problem, as has been reported on skid row, and therefore logically anywhere people have a camping area in this city.
Makes sense? Good -- I hope you learned a little something from our convo.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
Exitus has at times posted a variety of suggestions to push homeless persons out of helicopters, send them out to sea and abandon them in untended boats, and drive them out of places using electric cattle prods, for examples.
I'm amused at how you accuse me of posting misleading information, then you post something like that, which is false and you know I never stated "homeless persons" should be pushed out of helicopters like I want to commit mass genocide or anything at all like that. BTW, posting false information about other users on CD is a TOS infraction I believe.
Never said it did. OTOH, no rational person would state that it does not help matters when you have a huge number of people living on the streets and causing a bacterial problem, as has been reported on skid row, and therefore logically anywhere people have a camping area in this city.
Makes sense? Good -- I hope you learned a little something from our convo.
Learn something? Nothing new. Your postings in this thread have always been marked by self-contradictions and denials of things you’ve said in spite of them being quotably on the record. Reminds me of your hero in Washington D.C. same behaviors.
So, you “never said” that the beach closures were connected to the filth of homeless living on our streets? Is there another Exitus that posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat
Hey everybody, remember to stay out of the ocean for the next few days, because of all the filth that washed into our coastal waters due to the filthy people living on our streets. The bacteria can cause infections, and furthermore, who wants to swim in somebody else's tinkle and BM?
BTW, Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
Followed by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat
Where do non-homeless people usually relieve themselves? Where do homeless people relieve themselves?
No one raindrop can be blamed for a flood, but each raindrop certainly contributes to it.
... without any factual back up detailing the “bacterial problem” you cite as creating public danger on beaches (or elsewhere)?
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