Coronavirus in Massachusetts (traveling, consumer, important)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Not really. The point of the shutdown over the past 2+ months was to "flatten the curve" and keep the infection rate low enough to allow the healthcare system to keep the pace. And outside of New York City, it has been effective on that front. It was never intended to stop the spread entirely, and nobody assumed it would.

We do not know when (or even if) a vaccine will be ready, and continuing on in a virtual lock down for perpetuity doesn't make sense. The responsible approach is a phased approach to reopening the economy and gradual loosening of restrictions - all while continuing to ramp up testing and monitor infection rates. Additional lockdowns may be necessary if spikes in cases occur and some measures (i.e. a degree of social distancing, masks, etc.) will likely remain in place, but it can't remain as-is indefinitely. If a vaccine isn't available for a long time (or if it's never available), we need the herd immunity in order to beat this thing. You don't get that from maintaining the shut down forever, and practically speaking, some level of human interaction will always be essential so you can't realistically isolate the virus away. And there's a human element - people will get restless and start going out on their own regardless of the restrictions in place. So it's really more delusional to think that this can continue as-is forever.

Agreed. It isn't going anywhere. We can hope for the best, but must now proceed with a plan to live with Covid 19. I believe efforts would best be used at nursing homes and other senior facilities, primarily.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Don't answer the phone?

Hahaha! If only it was that easy.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Don't answer the phone?

Ahhh I wish I thought of that! Thanks.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by redplum33

At this point in time, one would need to be delusional to believe there's another viable option.

Originally Posted by lrfox

Not really. The point of the shutdown over the past 2+ months was to "flatten the curve" and keep the infection rate low enough to allow the healthcare system to keep the pace. And outside of New York City, it has been effective on that front. It was never intended to stop the spread entirely, and nobody assumed it would.

We do not know when (or even if) a vaccine will be ready, and continuing on in a virtual lock down for perpetuity doesn't make sense. The responsible approach is a phased approach to reopening the economy and gradual loosening of restrictions - all while continuing to ramp up testing and monitor infection rates. Additional lockdowns may be necessary if spikes in cases occur and some measures (i.e. a degree of social distancing, masks, etc.) will likely remain in place, but it can't remain as-is indefinitely. If a vaccine isn't available for a long time (or if it's never available), we need the herd immunity in order to beat this thing. You don't get that from maintaining the shut down forever, and practically speaking, some level of human interaction will always be essential so you can't realistically isolate the virus away. And there's a human element - people will get restless and start going out on their own regardless of the restrictions in place. So it's really more delusional to think that this can continue as-is forever.

There is no guarantee that anyone will be immune. In my opinion, a vaccine is far more likely. So, no, there really isn't another viable option at this time.

And the only difference between now and 2 months ago is that they now have field hospitals where people can temporarily go to before they get hauled away in the refrigerated trucks.

We're just now becoming aware that some children are getting PMIS 4 to 6 weeks after they've recovered from COVID-19. There is so much unknown; we can't let everyone get this virus as we don't know enough about it. We can't count on full recoveries with adults either. And what about babies being born in the near future? We have no idea what's going to happen. COVID babies?

The reality is...the gov't can print more money and we can stay in lockdown for the time being.

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by redplum33

There is no guarantee that anyone will be immune. In my opinion, a vaccine is far more likely. So, no, there really isn't another viable option at this time.

And the only difference between now and 2 months ago is that they now have field hospitals where people can temporarily go to before they get hauled away in the refrigerated trucks.

We're just now becoming aware that some children are getting PMIS 4 to 6 weeks after they've recovered from COVID-19. There is so much unknown; we can't let everyone get this virus as we don't know enough about it. We can't count on full recoveries with adults either. And what about babies being born in the near future? We have no idea what's going to happen. COVID babies?

The reality is...the gov't can print more money and we can stay in lockdown for the time being.

ya the goverment can print more money ruining the economy further. this is all bull. people need to get back to work there is no doubt in my mind politics have been influencing people like Dr fauci.

A theory I heard is he did not know how bad the virus was going to be and we shut everything down. Then we realized it was not worth it. so Dr fauci has to double down by saying "no the kids should not go back to school in the fall." "no its too early for people to go back to work." He does not want to be held responsible for creating the second great depression.

I will not take a vaccine I believe in liberty and that is my choice.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

ya the goverment can print more money ruining the economy further. this is all bull. people need to get back to work there is no doubt in my mind politics have been influencing people like Dr fauci.

A theory I heard is he did not know how bad the virus was going to be and we shut everything down. Then we realized it was not worth it. so Dr fauci has to double down by saying "no the kids should not go back to school in the fall." "no its too early for people to go back to work." He does not want to be held responsible for creating the second great depression.

I will not take a vaccine I believe in liberty and that is my choice.

Do you take the polio vaccine? MMR? any of the others? or you want to reverse herd immunity for these diseases, contrary to what you proffer in the case of COVID-19?

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by redplum33

The reality is...the gov't can print more money and we can stay in lockdown for the time being.

Depends on what you mean by time being though? Another month, sure. Into the summer? eh, scary but we can POSSIBLY come back from that. But for a full year to 18 months??? No that will finish us.

Originally Posted by justyouraveragetenant

A theory I heard is

LOL

[NewfieMama]

Originally Posted by redplum33

There is no guarantee that anyone will be immune. In my opinion, a vaccine is far more likely. So, no, there really isn't another viable option at this time.

And the only difference between now and 2 months ago is that they now have field hospitals where people can temporarily go to before they get hauled away in the refrigerated trucks.

We're just now becoming aware that some children are getting PMIS 4 to 6 weeks after they've recovered from COVID-19. There is so much unknown; we can't let everyone get this virus as we don't know enough about it. We can't count on full recoveries with adults either. And what about babies being born in the near future? We have no idea what's going to happen. COVID babies?

The reality is...the gov't can print more money and we can stay in lockdown for the time being.

1. All data so far points to the same conclusion: "so far, scientists say, it looks like SARS-CoV-2 probably induces immunity like other coronaviruses. That means that the human body will probably retain a memory of the virus for at least a few years and should be protected from reinfection, at least in the short-term."

Meanwhile, you read the same type of statement about the vaccine: Even when researchers find a vaccine that works against the new coronavirus, it could be 12 to 18 months at best before it’s ready for the public. That’s only a fraction of the usual time.

2. I understand that there is more to be studied around PMIS, but the lockdowns are having a huge impact on children: About 1.2 million children in more than 100 countries are at risk of dying from preventable causes every six months because health services are overstressed or curtailed by the coronavirus pandemic, UNICEF said this week.

3. Printing more money is the solution? Hyperinflation wasn't so fun for Germany in the early 1920's when they tried the same tactic.

Here is an article written by a surgeon and a professor of health policy at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health--it's mainly about how the lockdown made sense weeks ago, but now that we survived the surge in hospitalized cases, the economic trauma is becoming very apparent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/o...-lockdown.html

In it, he states: In late April, the United Nations World Food Program reported that 250 million people may face starvation as a result of the economic impact of Covid-19.

Shutting down the economy doesn't mean we all twiddle our thumbs and spend quality time with our families until we all get vaccinated and go on our merry way. It's death, it's starvation, it's misery, and it's ugly.

ETA: Not to imply that we throw the doors wide open and hope for the best, but I don't see it's delusional to think we can feasibly protect the elderly and immunocompromised without destroying our economy.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by redplum33

With all due respect, wolfgang, you're drawing conclusions from incomplete information.

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

Sure, we all are. Data is great though because you can't really argue with it. It will be years before we have "complete information".

Depending on what channel I put on the the TV, masks should be mandatory or masks are mind control devices. Or hospitals will be overrun and millions will die. Or Trump says X and the righteous MA forum folks say Y (and vice-versa of course)

Originally Posted by timberline742

Exactly. Many years before we know the true transmission rate and virulence. And likely years of research before we know when and where it jumped between species. That's how it works.

You can absolutely argue with the current data. As previously mentioned, testing was restricted due to a shortage of testing kits. The restrictions have relaxed recently but for a long time only people considered to be in the highest risk groups were allowed to get tested. The numbers are way understated, and it should come as no surprise that they are very low for the groups that weren't deemed to be high risk (because they had such difficulty getting tested).

We will likely never know the extent of the undocumented cases and deaths, but it's clearly not insignificant.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Depends on what you mean by time being though? Another month, sure. Into the summer? eh, scary but we can POSSIBLY come back from that. But for a full year to 18 months??? No that will finish us.

Originally Posted by NewfieMama

Shutting down the economy doesn't mean we all twiddle our thumbs and spend quality time with our families until we all get vaccinated and go on our merry way. It's death, it's starvation, it's misery, and it's ugly.

I believe I read somewhere that 64% are working from home. Add in manufacturing jobs, essential workers, etc. and it's probably 80% employed.

20% unemployed is a big deal but I don't see it as unmanageable for a year or so.