Are snow tires in MA necessary? (Boston, Somerville: transfer, school, college)

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by 5pyg1a55

@Shrewsburried, wow that video is brilliant.

One thing that I just thought of was 'black ice'- I've forgotten how to identify it and how to drive on it.

Easy to see at night when headlights reflect of it. It will look like a shinier, darker part of the road.

How to drive on it? You don't. Short of studded snow tires, only thing you can do is creep on it at as low of a speed as possible and hope the crown of the road doesn't cause you to slide into the curbing and destroy a wheel/tire.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Easy to see at night when headlights reflect of it. It will look like a shinier, darker part of the road.

How to drive on it? You don't. Short of studded snow tires, only thing you can do is creep on it at as low of a speed as possible and hope the crown of the road doesn't cause you to slide into the curbing and destroy a wheel/tire.

The main thing is to pay attention to the outside air temperature display on the dashboard. 30F to 34F is where you need to be super-attentive. What makes it slippery is the water layer on top of the ice. The colder it is, the better traction you have. In subzero, the car grips pretty well passing on an icy unsalted left lane in Vermont. Near freezing, it's really slippery.



Modern studless winter friction tires do just fine on black ice. They have lots of siping cuts to channel away the water layer. Studs are better but the usual list of friction tires have far better braking and cornering performance on black ice than all season tires. With Nokian friction tires, I can drive on things I can't walk on without doing a banana peel fall.


Northborough is on the edge of the Worcester snow belt. If I had no winter driving experience, I'd try to get some lessons from an experienced winter driver.

[5pyg1a55]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The main thing is to pay attention to the outside air temperature display on the dashboard. 30F to 34F is where you need to be super-attentive. What makes it slippery is the water layer on top of the ice. The colder it is, the better traction you have. In subzero, the car grips pretty well passing on an icy unsalted left lane in Vermont. Near freezing, it's really slippery.



Modern studless winter friction tires do just fine on black ice. They have lots of siping cuts to channel away the water layer. Studs are better but the usual list of friction tires have far better braking and cornering performance on black ice than all season tires. With Nokian friction tires, I can drive on things I can't walk on without doing a banana peel fall.


Northborough is on the edge of the Worcester snow belt. If I had no winter driving experience, I'd try to get some lessons from an experienced winter driver.

Thank you for this (and to BostonMike). I learned to drive in snow, but it's been over 10 years since I have, and even last time it was while visiting, and the roads were plowed/ cleared pretty well (driving between Beverly/Salem to Saugus and the towns in between). Maybe it'll come back, like they say about riding a bike?

Once when I was a teenager, long before I moved to CA, I fishtailed on a street in Salem (it was slushy and I was speeding- kids are dumb, we know), and my dad's suggestion to move the steering wheel into the direction the end of the car was sliding and letting off the accelerator saved me from hitting a tree, and got control of the vehicle back fairly quickly. Actually didn't hit even a curb or snow bank. But that was a long time ago.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Modern studless winter friction tires do just fine on black ice. They have lots of siping cuts to channel away the water layer. Studs are better but the usual list of friction tires have far better braking and cornering performance on black ice than all season tires.

Studded are best if you are doing a lot of extreme winter conditions and/or offroad. I think in MA this doesn't happen and I agree studdless are better. No matter where we are most of the days the road may be cold but not snowy/icy and studs are not good in those conditions.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Studded are best if you are doing a lot of extreme winter conditions and/or offroad. I think in MA this doesn't happen and I agree studdless are better. No matter where we are most of the days the road may be cold but not snowy/icy and studs are not good in those conditions.

Studded tires also aren't very useful in MA if you own a FWD vehicle. State law mandates rear only from NOV 2 through APR 30.

As Geoff states, modern winter tires do reasonably well on ice. I don't see much of point for studs outside of dedicated winter wheels/tires in areas like norther VT/NY where snow pack and ice buildup are common.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by 5pyg1a55

and even last time it was while visiting, and the roads were plowed/ cleared pretty well (driving between Beverly/Salem to Saugus and the towns in between). Maybe it'll come back, like they say about riding a bike?.

That area tends to be very good at clearing snow. Usually they have the plows out driving in circles through the duration of the storm and every landscaper in the area signs up for the gravy train. The minute the storm is subsiding, they do a very good job of getting down to bare pavement.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

The minute the storm is subsiding, they do a very good job of getting down to bare pavement.

I would say too good of a job when you include costs, damage from salt and damage to properties.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Studded tires also aren't very useful in MA if you own a FWD vehicle. State law mandates rear only from NOV 2 through APR 30.

The rear tire mandate applies only to commercial trucks. Passenger cars are allowed to run studded on all four corners.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by robr2

The rear tire mandate applies only to commercial trucks. Passenger cars are allowed to run studded on all four corners.

Thanks for correcting. I had always assumed stud laws were equal between commercial/non-commercial.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Studded tires also aren't very useful in MA if you own a FWD vehicle. State law mandates rear only from NOV 2 through APR 30.

As Geoff states, modern winter tires do reasonably well on ice. I don't see much of point for studs outside of dedicated winter wheels/tires in areas like norther VT/NY where snow pack and ice buildup are common.

Some of it depends on the weight of the car. On black ice, my life experience is that friction tires work well on lighter weight cars. I had VW GTIs as my commuter car for 14 years. Blizzaks and Nokian friction tires worked really well. With my heavy body on frame SUV, they didn’t work as well. I ran studded tires in the winter. It was like driving farm equipment but it dramatically improved black ice grip. I lived right on the coast in Portsmouth NH and hit black ice frequently from the ocean humidity condensing on the pavement at night. It was disconcerting to slide through stop signs early in the morning with snow tires.

With a Civic, I’d have to live on a challenging northern New England dirt road before I’d consider studs. In Northborough with a short Marlborough commute and no plans to be an every weekend skier, I’d stick with all season tires. If I had a 30 mile 495 drive and had to be there, I’d probably run an all weather tire.