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With a Civic, I’d have to live on a challenging northern New England dirt road before I’d consider studs. In Northborough with a short Marlborough commute and no plans to be an every weekend skier, I’d stick with all season tires. If I had a 30 mile 495 drive and had to be there, I’d probably run an all weather tire.
Trust me, if you have an essential worker type commute you want snow tires not all weather. I'm a utility worker and drive during the worst conditions we get, and having commuted for 10 years from Somerville to 495 I would absolutely not recommend anything but high sidewall snow tires on beater wheels and a vehicle with awd/4wd and adequate clearance. My new commute is shorter but less highway so I'm anticipating even worse conditions on local roads during storm peaks. Blizzaks have worked the best but some of my coworkers run Nokian and swear by them.
I've logged probably several hundred thousand miles in a stripped down RWD chevy van in the worst of every type of weather we get and Snow tires have probably saved my life a few times.
Last edited by wolfgang239; 10-29-2020 at 05:37 AM..
I've logged probably several hundred thousand miles in a stripped down RWD chevy van in the worst of every type of weather we get and Snow tires have probably saved my life a few times.
In grad school I had a 4WD S10 in Michigan. All seasons, but I loaded a bunch of tree trunks from my mom's yard and never cleared the snow out of the bed for any kind of traction
I managed a season driving a RWD Mustang without ABS/TC on summer performance tires. Spent a lot of time driving down the road sideways. Somehow I never wrecked. It can be done, but would not recommend it.
I did do a season with my AWD G35x and studded snow tires. I got a deal on the wheels w/tires so I gave it a shot. It was overkill being inside 495, but the confidence was incredible. I felt like I could drive up a wall with those on. Had a lot of fun, and used to go for drives during blizzards just to quell some boredom.
I sold those tires off the next spring, and managed just fine on 4 quality all-seasons on that car. I've managed fine with all-seasons now simply because my wife and I have the luxury of being able to stay home during a bad storm. If I had a job where I needed to be out in the bad weather, I would definitely have 4 quality snow tires.
And with this thread being a topic the last few days, it finally got me motivated to put a new set of tires on my Wife's Traverse today. On the way there right now. I bought all-seasons.
Last edited by BostonMike7; 10-29-2020 at 07:52 AM..
Trust me, if you have an essential worker type commute you want snow tires not all weather. I'm a utility worker and drive during the worst conditions we get, and having commuted for 10 years from Somerville to 495 I would absolutely not recommend anything but high sidewall snow tires on beater wheels and a vehicle with awd/4wd and adequate clearance. My new commute is shorter but less highway so I'm anticipating even worse conditions on local roads during storm peaks. Blizzaks have worked the best but some of my coworkers run Nokian and swear by them.
I've logged probably several hundred thousand miles in a stripped down RWD chevy van in the worst of every type of weather we get and Snow tires have probably saved my life a few times.
I would agree that someone in Northborough working an "essential" type position where they have to report every day (particularly utility workers who report especially when the weather is awful) would want to make sure they have the best setup for the worst conditions. But for those of us who have some flexibility and already short commutes, I think the snow tires are overkill for most cars. Even AWD is unnecessary (but helpful for getting unstuck). I would generally avoid RWD, but most FWD and AWD cars will be fine on healthy all seasons.
I had an old, 6-speed manual RWD Mercedes C-Class at college in Maine. I let my all season tires wear down to dangerous levels and that (particularly the last winter before I replaced them) was the worst driving I've ever dealt with. I would spin on the slightest incline (like even the lip of a driveway) if I had no momentum so I had to make sure I didn't stop completely at lights and stop signs by timing them and continuing a slow roll. I also learned to have an incredibly delicate touch with the gas/brake and steering. I didn't crash, and I think it's a single experience I can point to that made me a better driver (though I was a danger to everyone on the road at the time and wouldn't do it over again). But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Outside of the middle of a blizzard where a few inches are accumulating for hours and plows can't keep up, any decent AWD or FWD vehicle with all seasons will do OK. And in Eastern MA, those times are few/far between. I haven't owned a set of snow tires in my life and don't feel any need to get them. My girlfriend from the mountains of VT had studded snows on her Jetta from Nov-April and was definitely an outlier when she moved to Boston. But it was habit. Generally I'd say "do what you feel safest with," but I think that for the average driver, snows are unnecessary. Make sure your all seasons are healthy and your skills are sharp.
I would agree that someone in Northborough working an "essential" type position where they have to report every day (particularly utility workers who report especially when the weather is awful) would want to make sure they have the best setup for the worst conditions. But for those of us who have some flexibility and already short commutes, I think the snow tires are overkill for most cars. Even AWD is unnecessary (but helpful for getting unstuck). I would generally avoid RWD, but most FWD and AWD cars will be fine on healthy all seasons.
I had an old, 6-speed manual RWD Mercedes C-Class at college in Maine. I let my all season tires wear down to dangerous levels and that (particularly the last winter before I replaced them) was the worst driving I've ever dealt with. I would spin on the slightest incline (like even the lip of a driveway) if I had no momentum so I had to make sure I didn't stop completely at lights and stop signs by timing them and continuing a slow roll. I also learned to have an incredibly delicate touch with the gas/brake and steering. I didn't crash, and I think it's a single experience I can point to that made me a better driver (though I was a danger to everyone on the road at the time and wouldn't do it over again). But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Outside of the middle of a blizzard where a few inches are accumulating for hours and plows can't keep up, any decent AWD or FWD vehicle with all seasons will do OK. And in Eastern MA, those times are few/far between. I haven't owned a set of snow tires in my life and don't feel any need to get them. My girlfriend from the mountains of VT had studded snows on her Jetta from Nov-April and was definitely an outlier when she moved to Boston. But it was habit. Generally I'd say "do what you feel safest with," but I think that for the average driver, snows are unnecessary. Make sure your all seasons are healthy and your skills are sharp.
The problem, in my experience, is that once your 'all seasons' dip below mid-wear both FWD and AWD vehicle 'push' (understeer) horribly on snow covered roads. With AWD it's somewhat dependent the OEM setup/drivetrain ... my Subaru Impreza understeered horribly in all conditions, where as our VW Alltracks handle more neutral due to, I suspect, a 'smarter' drive transfer and better weight distribution.
The nice thing about dedicated 'summer' wheels/tires is that you can run them effectively down to the wear bars, assuming you're mindful of standing water and the potential for hydroplaning. I also fine the hard compound summer tires run more quiet than the more aggressive 'all seasons', though road noise can vary greatly so this is not a given.
The problem, in my experience, is that once your 'all seasons' dip below mid-wear both FWD and AWD vehicle 'push' (understeer) horribly on snow covered roads.
The problem, in my experience, is that once your 'all seasons' dip below mid-wear both FWD and AWD vehicle 'push' (understeer) horribly on snow covered roads. With AWD it's somewhat dependent the OEM setup/drivetrain ... my Subaru Impreza understeered horribly in all conditions, where as our VW Alltracks handle more neutral due to, I suspect, a 'smarter' drive transfer and better weight distribution.
This is true, I've had three AWD vehicles in the last 10 years and each of them has handled quite differently in all conditions (particularly the snow). My Impreza ('12 Sport) experience was similar to yours. But it was also the best car I've driven in the snow, period. My recently departed crossover had the same problems as the Impreza with worn tires and was never as competent even with a new set. The weight and clearance meant getting stuck was rarely an issue (it could get out of anything). But it handled worse than the Impreza in the snow, even with good tires, largely because it was top-heavy and the AWD system wasn't great. I've only encountered a single light snow with my current car, but it did fine. Curious to see how it works with a bit more thrown at it before I decide on whether to grab snow tires or not. It's AWD but operates exclusively in RWD in "normal" conditions. It also has a more robust "snow mode" than I've previously had in a car. So we'll see.
It's AWD but operates exclusively in RWD in "normal" conditions. It also has a more robust "snow mode" than I've previously had in a car. So we'll see.
I had an Infiniti like this. It was excellent in the snow, easily the best car I've ever driven. It had a dedicated snow mode that would lock the center diff at 50/50 split, but I never used it much because it would reduce throttle sensitivity. I would just leave it in normal mode, which was mostly RWD until wheel slip was detected. It did just fine in deep snow, even with all-seasons. I did run studded tires on this for one season.
I'd pick up a Q50 AWD again if I didn't need space and tow-capability. I loved that Nissan AWD setup.
I had an Infiniti like this. It was excellent in the snow, easily the best car I've ever driven. It had a dedicated snow mode that would lock the center diff at 50/50 split, but I never used it much because it would reduce throttle sensitivity. I would just leave it in normal mode, which was mostly RWD until wheel slip was detected. It did just fine in deep snow, even with all-seasons. I did run studded tires on this for one season.
I'd pick up a Q50 AWD again if I didn't need space and tow-capability. I loved that Nissan AWD setup.
The Q50 was actually on the table (along with the new Volvo S60). But I went with a Jaguar XE as it was just more fun to drive and actually had a really solid warranty (better than the Volvo's). So I'm hoping my experience is like yours.
This is true, I've had three AWD vehicles in the last 10 years and each of them has handled quite differently in all conditions (particularly the snow). My Impreza ('12 Sport) experience was similar to yours. But it was also the best car I've driven in the snow, period. My recently departed crossover had the same problems as the Impreza with worn tires and was never as competent even with a new set. The weight and clearance meant getting stuck was rarely an issue (it could get out of anything). But it handled worse than the Impreza in the snow, even with good tires, largely because it was top-heavy and the AWD system wasn't great. I've only encountered a single light snow with my current car, but it did fine. Curious to see how it works with a bit more thrown at it before I decide on whether to grab snow tires or not. It's AWD but operates exclusively in RWD in "normal" conditions. It also has a more robust "snow mode" than I've previously had in a car. So we'll see.
I don’t think the initial f/r bias has too much of an impact on high slip behavior. Behavior during high slip is going to come down to the power transfer between front and rear axles.
My Subaru Impreza had a ‘simple’ constant 50/50 split, which worked awesome for incline traction, but had inherent understeer when the front axles entered high slip. It was still a very capable winter vehicle, but it required a lot of driver inputs and more than once I had to leverage the parking brake to straighten the front end mid-corner. My wife’s old Legacy Outback was more neutral.
Our new Alltracks have a Haldex ‘4Motion’, which on this particular vehicle has a 90/10 f/r split under ‘normal’ conditions, but can transfer 100% of the power to the rear axles if the front axles slip. The behavior is incredibly neutral despite the baseline 90/10 split.
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