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I talk to Boston cops all the time, there are going to be a lot of early retirements coming up with not enough recruits to fill the ranks. We haven't seen the crime uptick like other cities have but I do expect that it is coming. The good cops are extremely demoralized and when that happens only the bad ones stick around.
If Marty leaves we will have two "defund the police" candidates jockeying to fill his shoes. I hope I am wrong because I am invested in this city up to my teeth but these social justice politicians are going to gut this city again and just like before, it will be decades before it recovers.
I'd be fine with the overtime if they would revamp the retirement system. Firefighters are much worse.
we could save a ton of money that way.
In my limited experience, the Boston police officers always seemed to be good guys doing a job. Never had a bad interaction with them. In fact, They cut me a break once when I was a stupid kid with a bunch of other stupid kids. Even then, I thought 'These guys aren't trying to prove anything' and I respected that.
The state police on the other hand... Every interaction with them is negative. We used to call them 'Hollywoods' for their ridiculous uniforms. Maybe it's changed but they always had an over the top attitude.
I don't think it would be a bad idea to make it a requirement for police to have degrees. People also complain that they dont feel they have adequate training but then they also complain about how much it would cost to give them additional training. Seems like something has to change somewhere but I don't think they can make the base salaries any lower than they already are particularly in the Boston area. I suppose they could make it a rule that no cop can earn more than 110k a year or something? But then what if OT is needed and there's no one to work. Obviously there's a need for the overtime.
I also find it hard to believe that many Residential staff life have to cut down a person who has hung themselves. I'm sure they deal with a variety of unpleasantries but not anything worse than a Boston cop who is working in the poorer areas. There seems to be an illusion that Boston cops are just sitting in their patrol cars (as someone above pointed out). I have a Boston cop friend who has been injured several times at domestic calls, found people overdosed with kids left hanging out and even a woman who rolled over on her baby smothering him. Not sure how you can think that these are people we should pay less money to.
The people who stole overtime are another story, but not sure why everyone needs to be punished.
I don't get this fixation on college education when it comes to police officers. I mean sure it makes one better rounded as a person; but it certainly doesn't guarantee the qualities needed to work in law enforcement like strong discipline, solid moral character, superb judgement and split second decision making ability, physical fitness, plain old common sense.... The longer I live the more I find those things much harder to come by than a simple diploma, and if I had to choose one or the other to protect my community you know which I am picking. I would also imagine the police academy is far more challenging and intensive than your typical 4 year degree program. They don't need to be experts on the law outside what is needed to carry out their duties, they have lawyers for that.
I wonder where these people are seeing these examples of poor training and incompetence. Massachusetts (of which Boston is no exception) has some of the best trained/highest standards in law enforcement anywhere, of which I imagine some of it can be owed to the good compensation compared to places like Mississippi where they start at 30K/year with probably minimal benefits (I can see why they might have a few "issues" in that situation).
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00
You see this play out in data. Based on the most recent data, the US is the 6th in the world for most police killings, coming in under such illustrious comparison points as Syria, Venezuela, and Brazil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ers_by_country While we fall down to number 27 when normalized for population, that's still not where we want to be. Per 100 million people, 34.8 people are killed by police in the US. Mexico is less than that at 30. The highest European country is 16.9, but that's almost unfair because Luxembourg's tiny population means the one person killed by police puts them up to that level. Canada is 9.7. France is 3.8. The rest of Europe falls below that. You don't have people with mentally ill families members being told not to call the police in Europe out of fear that the police officer will protect themselves even at the risk of someone experiencing psychosis' life.
I imagine those numbers are far more influenced by the amount of armed criminals in each country, than over-reactive policing.
I read an article about the early retirements as well. I can't say I blame them, it's been a turbulent few years in policing. Every time a black person is killed in this country by a cop it seems like all depts in every state get some kind of punishment. I know they felt like having to wear those video cameras was a a slap for what bad cops did, now there's all this happening plus the pandemic. A hispanic Boston cop actually died last march or April from Covid.
and if police were salaried they absolutely would not take on double shifts, why would anyone do that?
Have any of you ever worked an extra 8 hours at work just because? I could see staying an extra hour or two to get things done, but most people dont say hmm let me just work another 8 hours for nothing.
Nurses sometimes have to stay another shift if someone calls out sick but they get paid for it.
The state police on the other hand... Every interaction with them is negative. We used to call them 'Hollywoods' for their ridiculous uniforms. Maybe it's changed but they always had an over the top attitude.
The way I've heard it described, the staties are the "Marines" of law enforcement (and many of them actually are ex-Marines). They are essentially an army. If all he## breaks loose and the state erupts in civil war, that's where they will step in. Their training and mindset is in accordance with that, not community policing.
I read an article about the early retirements as well. I can't say I blame them, it's been a turbulent few years in policing. Every time a black person is killed in this country by a cop it seems like all depts in every state get some kind of punishment. I know they felt like having to wear those video cameras was a a slap for what bad cops did, now there's all this happening plus the pandemic. A hispanic Boston cop actually died last march or April from Covid.
and if police were salaried they absolutely would not take on double shifts, why would anyone do that?
Have any of you ever worked an extra 8 hours at work just because? I could see staying an extra hour or two to get things done, but most people dont say hmm let me just work another 8 hours for nothing.
Nurses sometimes have to stay another shift if someone calls out sick but they get paid for it.
Bottom line is a police department should look like the community it serves. As for the answer to this problem, I have no clue. You can't force people to apply. The continued demonizing of the police (ie. cutting their OT budget to "show them") and further destroying their morale, definitely won't help that though.
I don't get this fixation on college education when it comes to police officers. I mean sure it makes one better rounded as a person; but it certainly doesn't guarantee the qualities needed to work in law enforcement like strong discipline, solid moral character, superb judgement and split second decision making ability, physical fitness, plain old common sense.... The longer I live the more I find those things much harder to come by than a simple diploma, and if I had to choose one or the other to protect my community you know which I am picking. I would also imagine the police academy is far more challenging and intensive than your typical 4 year degree program. They don't need to be experts on the law outside what is needed to carry out their duties, they have lawyers for that.
I wonder where these people are seeing these examples of poor training and incompetence. Massachusetts (of which Boston is no exception) has some of the best trained/highest standards in law enforcement anywhere, of which I imagine some of it can be owed to the good compensation compared to places like Mississippi where they start at 30K/year with probably minimal benefits (I can see why they might have a few "issues" in that situation).
I imagine those numbers are far more influenced by the amount of armed criminals in each country, than over-reactive policing.
It is kind of surprising to me that some college isn't a requirement to be a police officer. Most jobs in the corporate world, even a lower admin level position or a customer support rep require a college degree. So why would a job where you do have to make decisions about people's lives (and carry a gun) not require a degree? I think having a degree shows that you stuck with something, you completed it. And as i mentioned most of the Boston cops I know have a degree, many even have a masters degree because they get paid more for it. Why not stop paying them more for having a degree and just make it a requirement?
With the way policing is becoming though I think departments are going to get less and less good candidates. If they already thought they had bad candidates and bad officers why would making things worse and less attractive get them better people? Makes 0 sense. With so many of them retiring early maybe the next mayor can come in and hire a bunch of social workers. I would not want to be the guinea pig for that but I'll wait for it.
The way I've heard it described, the staties are the "Marines" of law enforcement (and many of them actually are ex-Marines). They are essentially an army. If all he## breaks loose and the state erupts in civil war, that's where they will step in. Their training and mindset is in accordance with that, not community policing.
Quite a few Boston cops are former military as well. I think it's actually easier to get on if you're a veteran. This guy was an army ranger, had been to Iraq, Afghanistan and was shot in the face in Roxbury. He lived:
It is kind of surprising to me that some college isn't a requirement to be a police officer. Most jobs in the corporate world, even a lower admin level position or a customer support rep require a college degree. So why would a job where you do have to make decisions about people's lives (and carry a gun) not require a degree? I think having a degree shows that you stuck with something, you completed it. And as i mentioned most of the Boston cops I know have a degree, many even have a masters degree because they get paid more for it. Why not stop paying them more for having a degree and just make it a requirement?
With the way policing is becoming though I think departments are going to get less and less good candidates. If they already thought they had bad candidates and bad officers why would making things worse and less attractive get them better people? Makes 0 sense. With so many of them retiring early maybe the next mayor can come in and hire a bunch of social workers. I would not want to be the guinea pig for that but I'll wait for it.
Like I said they have their own training which would probably sink a lot more people than your typical college, and it's intended to teach them everything they need to perform their job. As I also said, a degree is certainly worth something and will usually help make one a better rounded cop but it's not a requirement. What if somebody has no college, yet they served 4 years in the military and possesses all those other qualities I mentioned earlier? I'd take him/her in a heartbeat over one with a degree and nothing else, no valid life experience or natural aptitude. I just think they would be eliminating some good candidates, which like you said they really can't afford to do right now.
Bottom line is a police department should look like the community it serves. As for the answer to this problem, I have no clue. You can't force people to apply. The continued demonizing of the police (ie. cutting their OT budget to "show them") and further destroying their morale, definitely won't help that though.
From what I've been told the police officers who are black do not want to work in the communities they are from. BPD makes it hard because you have to be living in the city for 3 years to even apply. You have to have a Boston address. Makes it harder for someone from let's say Brockton to become a boston cop. It would require them to move to the city and be here for a few years. So yeah that 3 yr rule should probably change as well. I knew a few people back in the day who used a boston address that wasn't their own, they got caught and that was that. They couldn't get on.
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