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But if you look at the cases listed, many of them involved trafficking to other states illegally. That's still against the law.
Legality shouldn't influence being able to form our own intellectual opinions. It's fully illogical to oppose something because it's illegal but have no problem with it whatsoever if it's legal. I'm not a big law or rule follower. We've had some messed up laws throughout history that nobody should have followed. Think slavery, women's rights, etc. I dare you to form an opinion without the law as your debate crutch.
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Originally Posted by TracySam
I still believe that people diverting legitimate medical marijuana illegally does indeed hurt. And like I said the big damage is done to the credibility of medical marijuana. People from other states considering medical MJ laws might look to these Colorado examples and decide against it for their own states. Doesn't that then harm those people in other states who might have benefited?
People are looking at Colorado wondering when the hell the rest of the country will catch up to full legalization. We're in the dark ages. This isn't any different from alcohol prohibition. Only a small percentage of people need to feel medical marijuana is credible. Most people just do not care if or how people smoke marijuana.
Oh, please. I'm not using the law as a crutch to form any of my opinions. However, I do make judgments about people and organizations who choose to violate laws. Of course, if they were violating a law by helping slaves through the underground railroad, then I'd form one kind of judgment, which is different from a judgment I form about a person or organization that chooses to traffic in some substance that is against the law. If they strongly believe that it should be legal, then use all the legal means necessary to get it legal (like many people are actually doing). But trafficking in illegal marijuana across state lines does nothing to help people and does nothing for "the cause" like helping escaped slaves over state lines did.
If antibiotics were illegal and tons of people were dying of infectious disease, and they were trafficking in life-saving antibiotics, then yes, I'd form a different opinion of those people. But the trafficking of MJ isn't to supply medical MJ to people in medical need; it's to serve social users and abusers. If you believe in that fine, just go about changing it in legal ways. But there should still be consequences for those who choose to violate the existing laws.
But the trafficking of MJ isn't to supply medical MJ to people in medical need; it's to serve social users and abusers.
That's not absolute. There are people who smoke illegal marijuana for medical purposes in states that don't have medical marijuana. And when medical marijuana prices are higher than illegal marijuana, medical marijuana users will buy illegal marijuana even in medical marijuana states to save money.
There is an abundant supply of illegal marijuana available to social users and abusers. They don't need medical marijuana. I suspect any medical marijuana tracked across state lines is the result of an illegal marijuana grower legalizing his grows so he can grow more openly. In other words, the growers intentions were never to only supply medical marijuana, but to better hide his illegal operation that already existed.
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Originally Posted by TracySam
If you believe in that fine, just go about changing it in legal ways.
I don't smoke marijuana. I simply support everyone's right to do so---legal or illegal. I'm doing my part in helping change the laws via speaking out against provincial thinkers whenever I encounter them. It's important to drowned out the loud minority by daring to speak up in support of marijuana legalization. I want to thank you for providing me rare opportunity to do so.
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Originally Posted by TracySam
But there should still be consequences for those who choose to violate the existing laws.
Whether its medical or not or whether its even legal or not getting it is a mere phone call away or a walk to the nearest bar or if my kids were into it they could pick it up at school as easily as buying a Coke, So if people want to use the stuff or abuse the stuff what difference does it make if its called medical marihuana ?
I say legalize the stuff and tax the h ell out of it..
Whether its medical or not or whether its even legal or not getting it is a mere phone call away or a walk to the nearest bar or if my kids were into it they could pick it up at school as easily as buying a Coke.
That's so true. My son said it was easier for kids to buy illegal drugs than cigarettes and alcohol when he was growing up.
I think a lot of people are missing my point. Let me illustrate with a real-life situation from my high school days (this was the 80s).
In my high school it was against the rules to wear shorts. Ever. No shorts at all. And NJ gets pretty darned sticky-hot in June and September, and our school did not have air conditioning back then. It was awful. Many of us believed that we should be able to wear shorts for our personal comfort and because it did not harm anyone or interfere with school work. some of us held that we could even perform our school work better if we were able to wear shorts.
[Compare this with the condition of marijuana being completely illegal.]
So a bunch of us got petitions signed by hundreds of students and parents, and went to a school board meeting to present it. They finally decided to allow shorts on a probationary basis. But there were certain rules that HAD to be followed: The shorts had to be longer than where your fingertips would fall with your arms at your sides. The weather had to be at least a certain temperature ( I forget, but let's say 87 degrees). And it had to be after June 1st and before September 30th. Many of us thought these rules were silly or arbitrary--what if we had a 90 degree heat wave after October 1st? What if you bought a perfectly "legal" pair of shorts and they shrunk in the wash to be 1/2 inch above your fingertips? What if it was technically below 87 degrees but it was extremely humid (we didn't have "heat index" back then)? But aside from all that, we were extremely happy that shorts were now "legal" even in these limited circumstances.
[Compare this with the states where medical marijuana is legal, but recreational use or buying/selling is not.]
But here's what happened: some kids pushed it. Kids started showing up in too-short shorts (they would pull them down a little on their hips if called on it). Some would wear cut-offs (which were also not allowed. Some kids would wear shorts if the local weathermen said it was 86 degrees, and then they'd argue with teachers and school officials about where the actual thermometer was. Or they would show up in shorts before June 1 or after Sept 30. Or they would intentionally break the rules so that they could publicly challenge the "stupidity" of the date rule, the temperature rule, or the length rule, and get sent home or to detention. I stayed with the rules. I wore shorts on days it was definitely "legal" and made sure they were not only to my fingertips, but a little below--I wasn't pushing it. Lots of other students were like me. We didn't want to lose this privilege of wearing shorts because of some teenage authority-challenging BS. We were thrilled to have gotten the "rights" that we had fought for. We hoped that some time in the future, after we graduated, future students would get more shorts-wearing rights, or even (gasp) get air conditioning. But we know it wouldn't happen right now, today.
[Compare this situation with the situation in which medical MJ is legal under limited circumstances, but lots of people push the rules, and break the law. Some people loudly campaign for legalizing all marijuana use, some just vocally support medical marijuana.]
So guess what? The school board and administration canceled the "probationary" allowance to wear shorts because of all the kids that were pushing the rules. It got to the point where adults (school board, administration, teachers, some parents) were tired of even hearing of any talk about shorts, because the ones who mouthed-off ruined it for those of us who wanted to respectfully and articulately express our opinions. They just decided "That's it! Enough!" So we all got to sweat again. Everyone suffered because of the people who broke the rules. We law-abiding students suffered because we were now uncomfortable again. Plus, all students with any opinions to voice about the matter, even those who attended the high school for several years thereafter, suffered because any mention or talk of wanting the right or privilege of wearing shorts elicited the same reaction among the adults: this is just some disrespectful selfish kid who wants to mouth off, push the rules and then break the rules, so I'm not listening to this kid. It didn't matter if the teen was an intelligent honor student who followed rules and respected adults; they all got the bad rap. There would always be some adults in power who were against shorts, but we would NEVER get them to hear our side since we teens didn't all do it the proper way. Plus, the adults in power who might have supported our opinion were now less likely to speak up for us.
[This is why I am bothered by the people who break the laws to try to "push" what the law allows. There will always be people who are against MJ, but if you want them to ever support your opinion, you need to do it the right way. There will always be people in the middle or the road, but they will only be convinced if the people voicing the opinion are doing so in a respectful way.]
Petitions and legal routes are not going to easily change marijuana laws, especially at the federal level, because our government is heavily invested in the "war on drugs." There are entire agencies an many government employees that depend on marijuana remaining illegal for the survival of the agency and employees. The government raises funds for off-the-books operations by selling drugs and weapons that are illegal. If they legalize it, they lose that revenue. The political parties do NOT care what constituents want.
When my children's school tried to make hoodies against dress code, EVERY student in the school wore a hoodie the next day. The school dropped the stupid rule. Hoodies are not forbidden.
You think equal rights isn't relevant but it is. Rosa Parks broke the law by sitting where she wasn't allowed and refusing to move.
Tracy you are missing a much bigger point. Would you like me to link the article showing more deaths from presp drugs than illegal. So to compare shorts as a kidde to people smoking MJ is ridiculous. Why not a fair comparison. And why a diatribe on school dress policy. Let's take a look at the rates of abuse of presp drugs vs illegal because you conveniently glossed completely over the fact, that people abuse substances of all kinds all the time.
How do you know the guy that "gamed" the system to get weed wouldn't "game" mental health staff for oxy, vicodin you name. The answer is you don't. There are plenty of pill mills and you know it yet that is a legal big pharma drug so it's ok.
So then by your account lets take a look at Florida the pill popping state in the nation know for easy Oxy. Should Oxy be banned Tracy because so many abuse it Florida. "The law has certainly been pushed there!" Your argument makes about the same amount of sense.
It's pretty clear your mind is made up as is mine so why bother.
It's pretty clear your mind is made up as is mine so why bother.
Exactly. Her OP makes it clear she doesn't really care about protecting the credibility of medical marijuana. She can't see past legality. Prescription drugs are sold illegally every single day, hooking people on opiates that eventually lead to heroin addiction for many. Yet you won't hear her ranting about the illegal selling of prescription drugs ruining the credibility of people who use opiates legally. She thinks because it's legal that it's credible and that's not true. Legal or not, opiates use is a short drive to addiction for the majority of the population. Marijuana is only addicting to people who have addictive personalities, who are at risk of being addicted to anything legal, even a computer game.
You're wrong, I am consistent. I am also strongly against the illegal use of Rx drugs. As long as a law is on the books, people need to obey it or face the consequences. Too many Rx drugs are diverted to abusers. That also hurts the people who truly need a Rx opioid, as they often get regarded as a drug abuser. And people deny or minimize the pain the person has, thinking they only fake it to get the drug. When you meet a person who mentions they aren't working because they have a chronic pain disorder that requires an opioid, isn't that the first thing you think? The abusers give the legitimate people a bad reputation. Plus, the people who legitimately need the narcotic have to now go through a lot more headaches to get their Rx, because of the abusers and diverters. I didn't "rant" about this initially because my thread was about the diversion of medical marijuana for illicit reasons.
You sneer at my comparison to the shorts policy in my high school, but how can you, with a straight face, compare a person's "right" to marijuana with a person's civil rights? You would REALLY compare a person breaking a law restricting marijuana with Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus??? Seriously? I compared marijuana with wearing shorts because they are both privileges that might provide some comfort, not a basic God-given human right that some evil law has taken away.
I would never have a blanket belief that legal always equals good, and illegal always equals bad. But please have some common sense. A law permitting black people to be stripped of rights that whites have is at its very basis "bad." But a law restricting who can buy and use weed? Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
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