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I apologize for being so blunt, but hearing people casually dismiss a serious medical condition like schizophrenia as being "all in their head" makes my blood boil.
I can see your point, and I agree that something as serious and debilitating as schizophrenia should not be dismissed as a mere character flaw. However -- while I object to some of cl's language -- I do think we are seeing an excessive medicalization of socially objectionable behavior and thought. And I am not talking about schizophrenia here, but about "personality disorders" and various nebulous syndromes which are nothing if not overdiagnosed. For what it's worth, I am not a mental health professional -- but I am greatly dismayed by our value system, which dictates that if a person repeatedly does something we don't like, or says something we don't agree with, then we slap him with a label that states he has a disease. (Yes, yes, I'm aware "disease" isn't the proper term here, but "disease" is what lay people hear when you say "disorder" or "syndrome". We can decry the ignorance or the sloppy thinking of the general public, but the implication of some organic, basic, foundational abnormality that is created whatever term you use is an important part of the stigmatization of objectionable behaviors and beliefs.) I am also dismayed by what I see as the growing need for validation through medicalization; plenty of people feel that their traumatic or tragic experiences, or their dark or sad thoughts are somehow not real, serious, or valid unless they are characterized as a mental pathology. (And watch -- I will be proven right in this when comments start coming in in response to this post to the effect that the relatives described earlier really are horrible people who inflicted a lot of pain on their families, and so of course they are sick.)
I don't deny that there are some people whose behaviors or beliefs are so far beyond the pale that they can fairly constitute a pathology. But I think we should be very careful when expanding the criteria for pathology to include anything and everything that places us outside our comfort zone. I suppose the rationale beyond loose criteria and overdiagnosis is "well, there is no harm in giving someone a diagnosis just in case". I have no doubt there are well-intentioned professionals who see young soldiers come back from Iraq to an economy in disarray and reduced benefits, and they give them a PTSD diagnosis just to enable them to pay their bills.
But there is a harm, great harm, that looms from all this. There is the growing cost of care, for one. Rejection of responsibility, another. Internalizing problems, which in many circumstances, will make it more difficult for people to cope with their circumstances. Increasing sensitivity to stress and growing dependence on drugs and medical intervention just to deal with the vagaries of life. But most importantly, and most dangerously -- pathologizing controversial speech or objectionable political opinions, and using psychiatry and mental health professionals as tools for social and political control. Think I'm paranoid? Governments have done it. It's true, we don't have the awesome coercive mechanism of a totalitarian state -- but reflexively medicalizing behavior, thoughts, and lifestyles that offend the public creates fertile ground for using medicine and psychiatry to silence dissent.
Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
1,918 posts, read 6,785,636 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
cl723:
Wisteria, having no contact is the only way to go. It`s worth your own sanity to not deal with these type of individuals. In my experience, there is nothing to gain by keeping contact. If I thought there was something to be gained by keeping contact, then I would have done it a long time ago.They never change.
Thank you. I do understand that, however, I am going to be in a situation of probably close proximity, and dread it. This individual knows I know (most of the family is still in denial), and because I "know," I do get repercussions -- sometimes physical.
I have cut off all contact in the past, and currently -- I just don't want an encounter because of a family situation.....
I guess I will just try to keep my distance (although that has not always worked). I also get "stalked" online by this individual, so I do not have any Facebooks or anything like that....but they manage to "find" me somehow, although I usually know and have someone step in and cut it off.
The incessant lying, manipulation, game-playing, pretending of emotions, potential of violence....you know the list. And, if you're onto them, then it's only worse. I hate seeing other people victims of this individual, but they just can't believe it's true -- so they blame themselves, when actually it's the sociopath manipulating and creating the whole situation (and laughing with pleasure that the cons worked).
If I get through this without contact, then great -- I hope so. I learned a long time ago that it won't change, and only gets worse by contact, so I do keep as much distance between us as possible. I just can't play the "Let's pretend we don't know game."
Well, thanks anyway. It's only 4 days anyway, so maybe I'll get lucky.
Please, have any of you had to deal with a relationship, parental, spousal, child, with someone who has BPD? What was it like? How did that person act? What did you do to overcome it or at least make peace with it? I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this topic as I am really struggling right now.
I have a family member with this personality disorder. She does not take medication. Her parents are not convinced that this is truly what her diagnosis is (she was misdiagnosed with Bipolar II as a teenager). She has extremely damaged relationships with nearly everyone she comes into contact with. Her symptoms fit every one of the criteria of the DSM for this personality disorder. This is an Axis I disorder and she will probably not ever change. She resists therapy. We have found this website to be helpful and realize that living with someone with BPD is different than occasional social interractions with them. Best of luck to you.
I can see your point, and I agree that something as serious and debilitating as schizophrenia should not be dismissed as a mere character flaw. However -- while I object to some of cl's language -- I do think we are seeing an excessive medicalization of socially objectionable behavior and thought. And I am not talking about schizophrenia here, but about "personality disorders" and various nebulous syndromes which are nothing if not overdiagnosed. For what it's worth, I am not a mental health professional -- but I am greatly dismayed by our value system, which dictates that if a person repeatedly does something we don't like, or says something we don't agree with, then we slap him with a label that states he has a disease. (Yes, yes, I'm aware "disease" isn't the proper term here, but "disease" is what lay people hear when you say "disorder" or "syndrome". We can decry the ignorance or the sloppy thinking of the general public, but the implication of some organic, basic, foundational abnormality that is created whatever term you use is an important part of the stigmatization of objectionable behaviors and beliefs.) I am also dismayed by what I see as the growing need for validation through medicalization; plenty of people feel that their traumatic or tragic experiences, or their dark or sad thoughts are somehow not real, serious, or valid unless they are characterized as a mental pathology. (And watch -- I will be proven right in this when comments start coming in in response to this post to the effect that the relatives described earlier really are horrible people who inflicted a lot of pain on their families, and so of course they are sick.)
I don't deny that there are some people whose behaviors or beliefs are so far beyond the pale that they can fairly constitute a pathology. But I think we should be very careful when expanding the criteria for pathology to include anything and everything that places us outside our comfort zone. I suppose the rationale beyond loose criteria and overdiagnosis is "well, there is no harm in giving someone a diagnosis just in case". I have no doubt there are well-intentioned professionals who see young soldiers come back from Iraq to an economy in disarray and reduced benefits, and they give them a PTSD diagnosis just to enable them to pay their bills.
But there is a harm, great harm, that looms from all this. There is the growing cost of care, for one. Rejection of responsibility, another. Internalizing problems, which in many circumstances, will make it more difficult for people to cope with their circumstances. Increasing sensitivity to stress and growing dependence on drugs and medical intervention just to deal with the vagaries of life. But most importantly, and most dangerously -- pathologizing controversial speech or objectionable political opinions, and using psychiatry and mental health professionals as tools for social and political control. Think I'm paranoid? Governments have done it. It's true, we don't have the awesome coercive mechanism of a totalitarian state -- but reflexively medicalizing behavior, thoughts, and lifestyles that offend the public creates fertile ground for using medicine and psychiatry to silence dissent.
Just for clarification's sake, there is no medication indicated for personality disorders. Medicine can be helpful in borderline personality disorder to prevent someone from killing themselves, but ultimately intense therapy is what helps, not medicine. Diagnosing someone with a personality disorder is not "overmedicalizing" behavior; its a way to get someone to understand that they act in a manner which impairs their social and occupational functioning and that getting therapy would likely be very beneficial.
And what is your point? There is no blood test, biological test, or brain scan that can diagnose a borderline personality disorder. It is all made up. Rudeness, insensitivity, and poor relationship skills are personal responsibility. Not some disease.
And did I say that your pain and suffering is wrong? No. Did I say your mother did not abuse you? No. I believe you and your stories of suffering 100%. I believe she is an unethical and mean-stricken person. That isn't a disease or a disorder. Thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005
I'm sorry you find this "laughable", funny but I don't see it that way. No offense but just because you don't believe this is a real condition does not mean it isn't. A lot of ppl believe gays "choose" to be gay and they are not born gay, and some believe the earth is flat or 7 thousand yrs old, does this make it true? These two books, especially the one about parents w/ BPD, fit this woman to a T, she fits 99% of the criterea. I've finally found a reason for the hell I've been living for over thirty yrs. This is not a bad roomate with a bad personality. There's much more to a person with severe BPD besides a selfish or rude attitude. My mother ripped up my Christmas gifts one year because of a perceived insult, had my pet euthenized because "I didn't take care of it"(not true), and sabotaged me from going to the college I worked like a dog for yrs to get into a month before I was to leave for school because she saw me going out of state for school as a form of "abandonment". This is also the same person who mortgaged her paid off home so she could pay for medical treatment that I needed. She can be wonderful, generous, and funny and then turn into a monster. She used violence, extreme verbal abuse/mental torture, and extreme shame to control and manipulate me. I used to wish that she just beat me instead of the violence coupled with the mental abuse. Believe it or not, the mental abuse/name calling was worse. And, everyone thinks she's this super-parent. This condition could not be more real to me and I'm just grateful that I finally have an explination for her behavior.
I've finally found a reason for the hell I've been living for over thirty yrs. This is not a bad roomate with a bad personality. There's much more to a person with severe BPD besides a selfish or rude attitude. This condition could not be more real to me and I'm just grateful that I finally have an explanation for her behavior.
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