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See, here's the thing. Sometimes you can be from Montana and you still don't qualify. Especially for those who can't join the GOBC. And there is that whole eastern vs western thing....
Why do I still find myself on this forum trying to convince people, presumably adults, that not most everyone around them (in this case 1,000,000+ people) is an extension of themselves, their value systems and their experiences? I understand you may have had light-hearted intentions, but you've sparked a tangent...
Since of course Montanans are the focus here, I'll just state again for the record that I'm a native-born resident of Montana who, like other Montanans, has been here long enough to have seen and experienced, to some degree or another, quintessential Montana (pretty much however you look at it): the Cowboys, the mountains, the prairies, the livestock, the open-carry holsters, the roughnecks, the agriculture, the weather, the isolation, the supposedly individualistic worldviews that are characteristically "Montanan", the meth-fiends (hehehe, sorry)...
I'm also one who doesn't identify with the modified settler lifestyle, the insularity, traditional industry, the superiority of rural life, or, last but certainly not least, the often implied notion that the quality of my character is (or ought to be) determined by a collective view of how well I conform to the expectations of a loud minority of special people who live in this special, special place.
I don't ride horses, cowboy hats are goofy, Eastern Montanans should move to North Dakota (), growth is good, camo jackets are tacky, the Montana Republican Party (at least most of it) should be expatriated to Alabama, Californians are welcome along with anyone from anywhere else and their value systems are none of my business, farms stink, camping sucks, urbanization is good, the Bitterroot is too conservative, and on and on and on.
Why do I still find myself on this forum trying to convince people, presumably adults, that not most everyone around them (in this case 1,000,000+ people) is an extension of themselves, their value systems and their experiences? I understand you may have had light-hearted intentions, but you've sparked a tangent...
Since of course Montanans are the focus here, I'll just state again for the record that I'm a native-born resident of Montana who, like other Montanans, has been here long enough to have seen and experienced, to some degree or another, quintessential Montana (pretty much however you look at it): the Cowboys, the mountains, the prairies, the livestock, the open-carry holsters, the roughnecks, the agriculture, the weather, the isolation, the supposedly individualistic worldviews that are characteristically "Montanan", the meth-fiends (hehehe, sorry)...
I'm also one who doesn't identify with the modified settler lifestyle, the insularity, traditional industry, the superiority of rural life, or, last but certainly not least, the often implied notion that the quality of my character is (or ought to be) determined by a collective view of how well I conform to the expectations of a loud minority of special people who live in this special, special place.
I don't ride horses, cowboy hats are goofy, Eastern Montanans should move to North Dakota (), growth is good, camo jackets are tacky, the Montana Republican Party (at least most of it) should be expatriated to Alabama, Californians are welcome along with anyone from anywhere else and their value systems are none of my business, farms stink, camping sucks, urbanization is good, the Bitterroot is too conservative, and on and on and on.
Times have changed, and not for the better. Years ago, I owned some average. I had wanted to get away from it all, something quiet, out of the way. I wanted to have a couple saddle horses and a couple pack mules. I love to go camping and would often saddle up, load the pack mules with my wall tent and supplies for 8-10 days. I might only be gone for 5 days, or if my snares did well, I'd be gone for 15 days. No matter how you looked at it, I had my own piece of heaven for a while.
A couple years after living there, my neighbors teenagers became an annoyance. Oh, nothing bad, just an annoyance. They turned the county road in to their own personal speedway. They'd come off the blacktop kicking gravel in every direction and dust everywhere. I did the unheard of, I called Tom and asked if I could come over, we needed to chat. Tom said, come over, coffee is always on for you. When I got there, the coffee was on fresh and Marie was taking fresh baked cookies out of the oven.We chatted for a bit and finally I outlined the problem. They didn't try and defend the teens, but rather, apologized and assured me that measures would be taken. Those boys immediately slowed down, drove more carefully, was mindful of their actions.
What I'm trying to point out is that we didn't need a covenence to lay down bylaws. I didn't have to wait for the monthly meeting to file a written complaint against a neighbor and embarress him in front of the home owners association, where it would cause bad blood forever. If I would of had to do that, I would never get any cooperation from him or his family, but rather, any dealings would probably have to be formal, typed, double spaced, spell corrected, complaints.
What's wrong with the old way? Why do people need a HOA, a Covenence, etc... to be a responsible neighbor?
I did the unheard of, I called Tom and asked if I could come over, we needed to chat. Tom said, come over, coffee is always on for you. When I got there, the coffee was on fresh and Marie was taking fresh baked cookies out of the oven.We chatted for a bit and finally I outlined the problem. They didn't try and defend the teens, but rather, apologized and assured me that measures would be taken. Those boys immediately slowed down, drove more carefully, was mindful of their actions.
I think that most people are, for some unknown reason, afraid to talk to there neighbors. Maybe it has something to do with where they come from or the fact that people are so quick to be defensive of themselves and their children. Lord forbid someone actually be held accountable for there actions. These days they would probable be more apt to send 'em a text instead of actually having a face to face conversation! Imagine that, actually talking to someone in a verbal conversation...who would have ever thought?!?!
I've rarely seen a regular user on the MT forums acknowledge the state's local and regional diversity, save for the usual propensity for crapping on Missoula and Bozeman (all dem' libruhls!). I can't say that nobody has ever acknowledged Montana's diversity on these various threads, but that hasn't been my overall experience.
As for the state as a whole, if someone is willing to identify particular local customs/cultural traits (or even, say, personality traits) that are distinctly unique to these mystical Montanans I hear so much about, please share; otherwise, please be willing to admit that 21st century Montanans are, and will continue to be, the same mixed bag of people, good and bad, found in every other state in the country.
You want an example of "rural" MT customs? How about trying to hire a contractor during hunting season?
How about when you hire people things run on MT time instead of "real" (city) time?
Those are only two, if I had more time I could list more.
Why do I still find myself on this forum trying to convince people, presumably adults, that not most everyone around them (in this case 1,000,000+ people) is an extension of themselves, their value systems and their experiences? I understand you may have had light-hearted intentions, but you've sparked a tangent...
Since of course Montanans are the focus here, I'll just state again for the record that I'm a native-born resident of Montana who, like other Montanans, has been here long enough to have seen and experienced, to some degree or another, quintessential Montana (pretty much however you look at it): the Cowboys, the mountains, the prairies, the livestock, the open-carry holsters, the roughnecks, the agriculture, the weather, the isolation, the supposedly individualistic worldviews that are characteristically "Montanan", the meth-fiends (hehehe, sorry)...
I'm also one who doesn't identify with the modified settler lifestyle, the insularity, traditional industry, the superiority of rural life, or, last but certainly not least, the often implied notion that the quality of my character is (or ought to be) determined by a collective view of how well I conform to the expectations of a loud minority of special people who live in this special, special place.
I don't ride horses, cowboy hats are goofy, Eastern Montanans should move to North Dakota (), growth is good, camo jackets are tacky, the Montana Republican Party (at least most of it) should be expatriated to Alabama, Californians are welcome along with anyone from anywhere else and their value systems are none of my business, farms stink, camping sucks, urbanization is good, the Bitterroot is too conservative, and on and on and on.
Love,
A Qualified Montana Native
I don't necessarily disagree with you (except for Eastern Montanans moving to North Dakota...we're pretty much there so why bother) but I not sure what your tangent is all about. I think the qualifications mostly depend on the eye of the beholder.
I don't necessarily disagree with you (except for Eastern Montanans moving to North Dakota...we're pretty much there so why bother) but I not sure what your tangent is all about. I think the qualifications mostly depend on the eye of the beholder.
Eastern Montana is a great place! Lots of room to breathe, great people, great hunting and fishing, beautiful vistas, if you like astronomy, you can see a billion stars on a clear night with no sky glow interrupting your view, what's not to love?
To some folks, the paved over, overrun rat race where the epitome of culture is Starbucks places like Seattle are the dream. The drug culture and it's associated crime are considered posative, where paying most of your wages to the corrupt government, and where the government controls every aspect of your life and regulates everything to death.
Where basic rights like owning a firearm are considered heinous and must be destroyed at any cost because the citizens aren't worthy of having rights, and because they can't think for themselves, the government must tell them how to think.
Some folks see the sterile concrete canyons of buildings and streets as far more lovely than a mountain valley.
Some folks don't like that people think for themselves and determine their own future when the government should do that for you.
Individualism is a SIN!! You must conform and you must be part of the nameless masses of humanity crushed into smaller and smaller areas where you labor mindlessly to pay for the "conveniences" of city life.
Not the choice for everybody, but everybody should have the right to choose how they want to live as well.
Eastern Montana is a great place! Lots of room to breathe, great people, great hunting and fishing, beautiful vistas, if you like astronomy, you can see a billion stars on a clear night with no sky glow interrupting your view, what's not to love?
To some folks, the paved over, overrun rat race where the epitome of culture is Starbucks places like Seattle are the dream. The drug culture and it's associated crime are considered posative, where paying most of your wages to the corrupt government, and where the government controls every aspect of your life and regulates everything to death.
Where basic rights like owning a firearm are considered heinous and must be destroyed at any cost because the citizens aren't worthy of having rights, and because they can't think for themselves, the government must tell them how to think.
Some folks see the sterile concrete canyons of buildings and streets as far more lovely than a mountain valley.
Some folks don't like that people think for themselves and determine their own future when the government should do that for you.
Individualism is a SIN!! You must conform and you must be part of the nameless masses of humanity crushed into smaller and smaller areas where you labor mindlessly to pay for the "conveniences" of city life.
Not the choice for everybody, but everybody should have the right to choose how they want to live as well.
Individualism was a SIN!! in the beautiful vistas of Eastern Montana as well. Good lord, just try living there as a non-conformist.
No, it is not any better over in Eastern MT as far as that goes. Our edge comes more from the fact that we don't get whine about the cold at temps near zero and wind up to 20 mph is considered a breeze. And any coffee that doesn't come from a rail road cafe is equivalent to Starbucks.
Individualism was a SIN!! in the beautiful vistas of Eastern Montana as well. Good lord, just try living there as a non-conformist.
I have lived there, Loved it and my wife is from Baker which is about as far east as you can go before falling off the edge of the world!
No, it is not any better over in Eastern MT as far as that goes. Our edge comes more from the fact that we don't get whine about the cold at temps near zero and wind up to 20 mph is considered a breeze. And any coffee that doesn't come from a rail road cafe is equivalent to Starbucks.
Zero! that's just cooling off from the summer heat before the cold sets in! 20 mph winds ARE a breeze when you consider most of the area along the front get winds in excess of 70.
I've had starbucks coffee, the stuff from any greasy spoon rail road cafe is far better It just doesn't cost as much or have a stupid name.
Look, no place is perfect for everybody, but you don't have to show your papers at any of the state borders so we are free to go where we do fit in and like it.
I'm happy in Montana, and after traveling the world and most of the states, I've never found anyplace better.
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), growth is good, camo jackets are tacky, the Montana Republican Party (at least most of it) should be expatriated to Alabama, Californians are welcome along with anyone from anywhere else and their value systems are none of my business, farms stink, camping sucks, urbanization is good, the Bitterroot is too conservative, and on and on and on.
