why are some people so mad? (motel, purchase, incomes)
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I grew up in Montana attending UM and moving to California in 1988.
There have been problems in Montana long before in influx of population that seems to be getting the blame for all the problems.
Butte and Anaconda were as beautiful as any place in Montana before mining tore up those areas. Missoula had some of the worst air pollution in the country until the teepee burners were shut down. The forests were beautiful until logging companies cut them down for homes and developers built ski resorts. The rivers flowed freely until farmers dammed them for irrigation. Bison roamed the plains by the millions until they were slaughtered. What I am getting at is things change and some are not all good. But...none of that stuff was caused by a small influx of people from outside the state in recent years.
Quality of life changing? Don't blame outsiders for the out of control drug problems in Montana. The meth craze is homegrown. The crap people watch on TV and the theaters and listen to on the radio also contributes to the problems. But...we live in a free country. Starbucks and Wal Mart would not build new stores if nobody patronized them. Believe me, none of the new chain stores in Montana were built to cater to newcomers to Montana. It is easy to blame our problems on someone else, but maybe we need to look in the mirror.
Montana is one of the greatest places on this planet and my wife and I both want to move back there for retirement. We won't be buying a million dollar house, a hobby ranch, or property to make private for our own hunting and fishing. We just want to enjoy time with our friends and family and enjoy the beauty of the state.
Some people talk about the state being crowded. Have you every flown over Montana in a commercial jet? If you have, you may not even see evidence of a population of people. That can also be said of most states including California which is home to 10% of our country's population.
I thought that it would be good to first quote excerpts from some of your passionate comments about the changes going on in Montana with a few comments of my own.
“witnessing, first hand, their way of life being swept away by those who would just as soon care less about us, our way of life, our concerns, our economic survival, and especially, our wide open spaces”
“What's been going on over the recent past, is that we are being displaced by those who would rather not be kind, caring, close or responsible”
“Trod on our forests and open spaces, who don't give any thought to our natural beauty, our history and most of all, our people and how they've chosen to live”
“People that will RESPECT the land, the natural beauty, & their history and do whatever it takes to preserve and protect it”
Do these heartfelt comments sound strangely familiar? Here are just a few heartfelt speeches from my forefathers who occupied this land and who also expressed these same kinds of concerns to many of your forefathers that you are now expressing to others.
Crazy Horse “We did not ask you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as a home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here; you are taking my land from me; you are killing off our game, so it is hard for us to live. Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them."
Aitooweyah, Principal Chief of the Cherokees, late 1800s. “We, the great mass of the people think only of the love we have for our land, we do love the land where we were brought up. We will never let our hold to this land go, to let it go it will be like throwing away (our) mother that gave (us) birth”
Charles Hicks, Tsalagi (Cherokee) Vice Chiefspeaking of The Trail of Tears, Nov. 4, 1838 “We are now about to take our leave and kind farewell to our native land, the country the Great Spirit gave our Fathers, we are on the eve of leaving that country that gave us birth, it is with sorrow we are forced by the white man to quit the scenes of our childhood...we bid farewell to it and all we hold dear”
It would seem that history has shown, and the present generation has proven, that we cannot keep what does not belong to us. It is to our advantage to be gentle in our observations - to see and cultivate the best in who we are and in those around us.
I thought that it would be good to first quote excerpts from some of your passionate comments about the changes going on in Montana with a few comments of my own.
“witnessing, first hand, their way of life being swept away by those who would just as soon care less about us, our way of life, our concerns, our economic survival, and especially, our wide open spaces”
“What's been going on over the recent past, is that we are being displaced by those who would rather not be kind, caring, close or responsible”
“Trod on our forests and open spaces, who don't give any thought to our natural beauty, our history and most of all, our people and how they've chosen to live”
“People that will RESPECT the land, the natural beauty, & their history and do whatever it takes to preserve and protect it”
Do these heartfelt comments sound strangely familiar? Here are just a few heartfelt speeches from my forefathers who occupied this land and who also expressed these same kinds of concerns to many of your forefathers that you are now expressing to others.
Crazy Horse “We did not ask you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as a home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here; you are taking my land from me; you are killing off our game, so it is hard for us to live. Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them."
Aitooweyah, Principal Chief of the Cherokees, late 1800s. “We, the great mass of the people think only of the love we have for our land, we do love the land where we were brought up. We will never let our hold to this land go, to let it go it will be like throwing away (our) mother that gave (us) birth”
Charles Hicks, Tsalagi (Cherokee) Vice Chiefspeaking of The Trail of Tears, Nov. 4, 1838 “We are now about to take our leave and kind farewell to our native land, the country the Great Spirit gave our Fathers, we are on the eve of leaving that country that gave us birth, it is with sorrow we are forced by the white man to quit the scenes of our childhood...we bid farewell to it and all we hold dear”
It would seem that history has shown, and the present generation has proven, that we cannot keep what does not belong to us. It is to our advantage to be gentle in our observations - to see and cultivate the best in who we are and in those around us.
If you are not a Chief, you will be. When you are done speaking there is only deafening silence.
It's not so much us, but more Montana herself, that decides who stays..... many who come here, leave, because Montana doesn't allow them to stay...... whether it be by economics, climate, geography...... many who come, don't stay.
We'll witness the million dollar homes for sale in Lincoln County as a testament to this fact..... we aren't just any ole cup-o-tea..... and many who come here find this out in pretty short order.
Everyone deserves to live their dreams.... if they can..... and if moving to Montana is a part of your dream..... then so be it.....
If you are moving to Montana for the "simple" life...... then your bucket will overflow with it for sure...... just remember to live "simple"..... and you'll be alright.
Yes, Montana herself will determine her future, particularly in the areas you state. If you want Montana, you must court her patiently.
But Montana needs a little help from her friends. A Montana without a plan cannot be helped by a "morning after" remedy. In some respects, Montana is like a teen-ager. As the keepers, we have to want what's best for Montana to grow up, but we may have to impose some boundaries to keep her safe.
If you want Montana, you must court her patiently.
Hmmm, Montana may think that she is a high class lady but at times she acts more like a prostitute, lying on her back for the highest bidder. How many times has Montana given her treasures to the out of state rollers instead of her own children? The cattle industry, the copper industry, Montana Power anyone? Each one of those markets should have stayed here but they all ended up in some outsiders hands. Court her patiently? Just pay the man holding her leash what he believes he is worth and she is yours for the taking. And to heck with everyone else. Seems to be anyways.
Appreciate your feedback. I guess what I was getting at was the context of GiftShoppeGuy who asserts that Montana is not for everybody and many do, in fact, leave. Not everyone "gets/understands" Montana. Many want Montana on their own terms, as you have described and I have no argument with you there. Again, it's like the parent who says nothing to their teenager when, in fact, saying nothing says everything. Montanans need to keep "speaking up" for what they want. The question is: What do we want? What will it be?
Appreciate your feedback. I guess what I was getting at was the context of GiftShoppeGuy who asserts that Montana is not for everybody and many do, in fact, leave. Not everyone "gets/understands" Montana. Many want Montana on their own terms, as you have described and I have no argument with you there. Again, it's like the parent who says nothing to their teenager when, in fact, saying nothing says everything. Montanans need to keep "speaking up" for what they want. The question is: What do we want? What will it be?
You also have to throw in the "if it doesn't directly affect me then I won't say anything" attitude here. Kind of a MYOB in hyperdrive...
Crazy Horse
“We did not ask you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as a home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here; you are taking my land from me; you are killing off our game, so it is hard for us to live. Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them."
Well I guess they'll just have to accept change. That's what everyone seems tell me when I say anything about the way things are going in Montana. I'm being a smart arss of course.
What do the native americans of today think of all this new changes to the state ?
I can only relate going back so far, but I'd say after some dramtic changes early on in MT's history the state didn't change all that much until this recent episode started around 1990, sure there's been other changes but before that change seemed to be so slow enough as to be almost unnoticable, and it didn't seem to have such an impact.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, as it is a point that I don't think many people realize or take very serious. The point is that today's 'growth', the housing expansion, malls, box stores, etc are as detremental, perhaps worse, to montana's way of life as the clear cutting and bad mining practices were in the past. At least the clear cuts are growing back and we've managed to clean up some of the mining mess, but once you rip down a forest or take a pasture for 'growth' - it's gone forever.
I think someday people will look back, the same way we look back now on the mistakes (clearcuts, mining) and say "God what were they thinking when the built all that crap, just to make a buck" - Maybe they'll even find a need to restore the land, chopping down all the big box stores, parking lots, condos and Mc Mansions and restoring them to their natural state.
I find it increasingly interesting that my generation - the enlighted, socially conscious one, has now so self heartly embraced, after tossing aside their other one, they now worship a new god - the God of Growth, Money and Self Indulgence.
Last edited by JoeJoeMan; 12-30-2007 at 01:20 PM..
I think someday people will look back, the same way we look back now on the mistakes (clearcuts, mining) and say "God what were they thinking when the built all that crap, just to make a buck" - Maybe they'll even find a need to restore the land, chopping down all the big box stores, parking lots, condos and Mc Mansions and restoring them to their natural state.
I find it increasingly interesting that my generation - the enlighted, socially conscious one, has now so self heartly embraced, after tossing aside their other one, they now worship a new god - the God of Growth, Money and Self Indulgence.
Unfortunately I believe this is the price we pay for progress and technology. "Find a need to restore the land".....I believe we can already say that now in certain instances and places. Will it ever happen? I'm thinking never! We as humans will inevitably develop and use all that we can and governments will govern to suite their needs and make money without any serious regards to the land when looking at the "big picture" as they do now and when all is said and done, the world will be a worse place than it is now with the land completely raped.
As we get closer to that time, mother nature will find a way to erase most all of us and cleans itself of the disease called human nature. And then it will start over again!
I don't think it is in human nature overall to change the path we have been going down for thousands of years. If so It would have already been changed and things would have ever gotten to be what they are today...... weather that be good or bad, that is a relative statement.
I would just like to say one thing, and I know I am what you call an outsider, one who hasnt lived in montana, and doesnt know of her ways as u put it.But I would like to say that their are people that want to be in montana, people like us, my family, we dont have alot of money, and we certainly know what poverty is from time to time. But we arnt afraid to live. Isnt that what most of you want, to live. And exaclty how would you difine living? Is it just getting up going to work, coming home, making dinner and going to bed. OMG i hope not. Living at least to us, is a chance to be one with nature, to look around and take her in at all of her glory. We dont want to change anything, we dont want to stomp on anyones way of life. We just want to live.
I understand that there are areas affected by change, I do understand taht, there are so many people that just dont give a ****. But have you ever tried paying it forward? Do unto others as they would do unto you. Maybe some of these people from bigger places dont understand the small town communities, perhaps if you try to show them. Yes I know there are people out there that wont give u the time of day, but does that mean that you just stop all together being a close community. Show them what they are missing, show them what a community is.
Ok i will shut up now, cuz i know i will prob just be shot down but i just wanted to share alittle insight that all new people arent bad. And for those people that come and cant handle it and leave, just look at it this way that is just one unworthy person that montana didnt want to sstay.
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