why are some people so mad? (lawyer, wedding, military)
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joejoeman......there is much truth in your statement yes but I have not bought into any 'good growth' notions being tossed around what so ever. The growth that we ARE experiencing without the illegals that you fail to see is absolutely no good for the US or any of the people in it as far as I am concerned. I actually disagree with our Gov opening up it's boarders to promote population growth, which is exactly what they are doing.
False economy or not, it makes no difference. The more murchandise that exchanges hands in the US means more revenue for the Gov. It is that simple! And I agree 100% that it completely sucks that it is all imported from a communist country. But this is the way it is and we ahve to find a way to deal with it.
And no I don't think people move where there is work......they move where there is revenue stream, not necessarily jobs. Take for instance any retirement community or even NW MT for the most part........there was no real industry or ecomomic attraction to make a family move there years ago. Just simple living. But then retirees or people with money move into the area due to the excellent scenery, simple living, original lower cost of living and peace and quiet......by doing so they create the revenue stream.
Once a revenue source like this is exposed, here come the Corp box stores to accommodate the needs of the waiting revenue. All this scenario does is create a whole lot of low paying jobs, some decent paying human services work and an economy with a nice revenue stream all managed by the Corp's and the revenue in everyone’s pockets. Nothing false about it. You are growing because of the influx of potential revenue streams, excellent country scenery and the needs of the people with the revenue. I know it sucks to be a place that is so "wanted". Simply make yourself less wantable . It is sort of a catch 22 when you think about it.
"what we are doing now for sake of the almight dollar to satisfy our american self indulgent nature"
Isn't this what America and human nature is all about????
Don't worry, if history has taught us anything, a two mile wide asteroid will fix everything pretty soon.......or something similar! Mother nature can only take so much and I think she is starting to cough. Just a matter of time before she sneezes.
What do the native americans of today think of all this new changes to the state ?
When I look back now from this high mountain of my old age, I can still see the beauty and the vastness of this land. I remember them as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young. They are good memories but it is not good to dwell too long on these things. They are like visiting the grave of an old friend.
The greatness of a civilization is not what they possess in buildings, land or money; these things will pass away in time. As history has shown, no civilization is exempt from this common destiny. What is important is how we as a people value and treat each other.
I have heard several times a short “wise tale”, often attributed to an unnamed Native American Elder, about “two dogs” which may be helpful. “Inside of us there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all of the time.” When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied “ the one I feed the most.”
Last edited by Dog Soldier; 01-02-2008 at 10:57 PM..
The growth that we ARE experiencing without the illegals that you fail to see is absolutely no good for the US or any of the people in it as far as I am concerned. I actually disagree with our Gov opening up it's boarders to promote population growth, which is exactly what they are doing.
I'm not sure what you mean there, but my take is that illegal immigration isn't good for our economy no matter how you measure it. There is a big long list of reason why we as actual citizens have to go thru customs, so why is it ok for people not even from our country to avoid that list ? If they don't have to pay attention to it, I shouldn't either, no passport, I'll just come and go as I please and bring whatever I feel like it into or out of the country, and that includes drugs and disease, or anything else. I'm a citizen so I should have the right to do that before someone from another country does. Only a fool could justify illegal immigration.
I'm all for capitalism.......but I beleive it has run a muck chasing the almight profit dollar, and has screwed up life for us here by giving away our LIVELYHOODS to a COMMUNIST country - and in the process they are trying to keep the economy revived by flood our country with people in complete disrespect of our own laws not to mention morality or common sense. And they're our leaders.....I guess those old 60s hippies types are finally getting the government they deserve. To bad for kids though.
I'm not sure what you mean there, but my take is that illegal immigration isn't good for our economy no matter how you measure it. There is a big long list of reason why we as actual citizens have to go thru customs, so why is it ok for people not even from our country to avoid that list ? If they don't have to pay attention to it, I shouldn't either, no passport, I'll just come and go as I please and bring whatever I feel like it into or out of the country, and that includes drugs and disease, or anything else. I'm a citizen so I should have the right to do that before someone from another country does. Only a fool could justify illegal immigration.
I'm all for capitalism.......but I believe it has run a muck chasing the almight profit dollar, and has screwed up life for us here by giving away our LIVELYHOODS to a COMMUNIST country - and in the process they are trying to keep the economy revived by flood our country with people in complete disrespect of our own laws not to mention morality or common sense. And they're our leaders.....I guess those old 60s hippies types are finally getting the government they deserve. To bad for kids though.
What I mean is simply that this country is growing population wise even without taking into consideration the illegals coming into it. You stated that we are stable in that department. I disagree.......that is all. And our government IS opening up it's borders, they simply are wanting those that would normally come in illegally to now simply acquire the proper paperwork and they can become one with the US. Hence the latest Mexico Treaty. This is a rather good move from the Governments point of view, but not from a US citizens point of view any way shape or form.
I personally think we should lock this country down and charge admission if you want in! If you attempt to come in without paying, you are shot on sight! The US Gov is more than capable to perform such a task but they would be shooting themselves in the foot by even considering such a task. Most immigration task forces exist for "show" purposes only to pacify those complaining about illegals as most do not impact things very much at all. There is much truth behind this too.
The problem with stopping the population growth for the Gov is that illegal or not, if you are in this country you are generating revenue for them no matter what. You have living expenses and you have to purchase things to live. The purchases no matter how small generate income for the Gov. Now they are making it easy to become legall.....which will generate even more income for the them.
I said it before and I'll say it again......the US Gov and the people of the US have two completely different agendas. And I don't agree with the Gov! And it is sad for the kids.....I have a few young ones to worry about! I don't have the answers........yet
One thing for sure, MT is far away from dealing with illegals issues. Really nothing for them to go there for, which is a good thing
Stephn_K, well I couldn't agree with you more. The Gov certainly does have a completely different adjenda then it's citizens. I find it absolutely unbelievable that they let this problem continue, it's almost like something you'd read about in a futuristic book - "Government now owned and run by Bush/Clinton families let millions flood across borders."
Then we tout and try to so called promote democracy around the world, other countries must look at us and laugh. Looking back at history what we now have for a 'democracy' hardly reflects what the orginal Greeks described as one, not to mention what our founding fathers had in mind. Sad isn't it.
There was a very good reason why democracies didn't let everyone vote AND it wasn't becuase they were racist or sexist. But even in our current day society of overly educated the common voting person hasn't a clue of the reasoning behind or the makings of a true democracy, and what is requried of it's citizens to maintain one. If one studies greek democracy it isn't hard to determine that we in american, as indivudal citizens no longer have what it takes to maintain a democracy or even deserve one. I know, I know that was a long time ago and this is a different day and age but somethings such as human nature are timeless, as such predicting the future isn't all that hard as one might imagine. Here I'll make one such prediction right now - If a person isn't smart enough to know he/she should have enough backbone to protect what he has - he will soon loose it. And society is just a collection of individuals. And let me add to that...If a person is to dumb to realize or care that his leaders are lying to him he has no business voting.
Our leaders lie to use straight thru their teeth everyday and we show up by the millions to vote them in again and again - Don't kid yourself they know we are smucks and all we care about is a pretty face and and a feel good message. Their the hucksters and we're the suckers.....who's worse ? We got the government we deserve........the arrogant, self rightous dumb hippies have finally come of age, how ironic that they are leaving a worse place behind for their children, course most of them don't have kids, I guess they figure that all that cheap chinese junk while make their children happy, such is their hippy mind set. Old hippies not very smart people by any measure of the imagination. And mind you I'm of that generation, they all seem like nice enough people, well educated, but just not very smart. Sex, drugs and R&R - indulgence will bring any society down given enough time.
Last edited by JoeJoeMan; 01-04-2008 at 11:53 AM..
joejoeman.....correct you are! Our democracy is just an illusion. If it wasn't, we would have a government of the people, for the people and by the people instead of what we actually have.
Where did I hear that before????? I think that dude got shot just after that too.......
The more "people" the gov can get listening to the crap that seeps out of its mouths the bigger the illusion becomes and the stronger it get. It used to be "select the lesser of two evils". Today it doesn't seem to matter as the evils are equal any more and even more evil than anyone cares to admit, or like you say they are just too stupid to understand and realize it.
The more "people" the gov can get listening to the crap that seeps out of its mouths the bigger the illusion becomes and the stronger it get. It used to be "select the lesser of two evils". Today it doesn't seem to matter as the evils are equal any more and even more evil than anyone cares to admit, or like you say they are just too stupid to understand and realize it.
Steph, it's nice to know there is someone else (you) out there that sees what is going on. I once stated that what our country really needs to do - is to not show up on election day, as a form a protest, our way of saying "we're not buying this crap anymore - either give us someone real to vote for or forget it" - in doing so we could expose our phone government for what it is. It'll never happen........but...............oh well, what are ya gonna' do ?
You know I'd even like to beleive in guys like Ron Paul, but the first thing I think is, "he's part of the same old republican party", even if he is sincere he is just being used as a puppet or lightening rod so to say for that element of the voters, to make them think they actually have a voice, it's sort of goes down that line of "controled opposition".....sixth grade politics, just put out some candidates that will say what some people in your party beleive, in an effort to bring them in, then have the cadidate "throw their support" - I think I learned that in sixth grade history class, and belevie me I didn't learn much back then, but it amazes me that the general public at large doesn't even understand such simple deceptive politcal stratagies, which reflects back on my point that a lot of people just shouldn't be voting
That's almost and I do mean almost why I would vote for someone like Obama. The fact he's a newbie, only been around for a couple of years so most likely hasn't been too corrupted yet and the fact that every other canidate keeps saying he's got no experience like that's a bad thing.
Yes, he's got no experience in wheeling and dealing with corporations and influence peddlers like the old dogs have.
This government was originally set up with the idea that people with "no experience" would serve a term then go back to the farm,store or whatever they did before serving, not to create lifetime employment.
Heck, he surely can't do any worse than anyone else so far can he? The other thing that cracks me up is exactly what kind of training school does one go to for "presidential" training? I think they all learn on the job. Take most of our good presidents so far, not one of them were educated in politics or foriegn policy or economics. The bad ones so far have been highly educated in the above so what's that tell you.
If you think Obama has clean hands I'd suggest you look again at his record in Il. regarding sweetheart deals for real estate that paid off in a "free house" in Chicago. Being president is not on the job training land in any case and he's said so many silly things that should he be elected a lot of people are going to look back and wonder how Jimmy Carter got back in.
I am not an angry anti-politician type as some here are. The nature of being involved in large complex issues requires dealing with, and sometimes hoding your nose with people you are forced to deal with. You'd be forced to do it if you were in that position, so would I, so would anyone. My criteria however seems obvious to me but seems to escape most....was the apparent deal for the countries interests, or the persons? Reagan's iran-Contra scandal, e.g., was to forward an anti-communist thrust in Central America on the cheap, and against the wishes of a Democrat congress, while e.g., Clinton's pardon's resulted in personal cash flow.
Hiring a president has to be thought of as hiring the toughest, smartest, craftiest person you can find to choose among bad choices on America's behalf. Not a choirboy.
A lot of what has been said on these posts resonates with me. However, I see angst with no solution, which is disheartening.
As far as I am concerned, Republicans suck. Democrats suck. And if I missed your favorite group of politicians, they suck too. It doesn't matter if they started out as a Republican, Democrat, etc. Once they get into the cookie jar, they change into a "Career Politician", and even the few that have some semblance of ethics left, are emasculated by their party and special interests, or are neutralized by compromise.
The problem is not so much that they are skilled at defining a demographic of voters and promising some entitlement or "Earmark" to buy their vote. The problem is that the majority of voters continue to sell it to them. If the majority of voters remain self-serving, ignorant, and ethically compromised, then "Our" government will
continue to be self-serving, ignorant, and ethically compromised.
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. It is sort of a catch 22 when you think about it. 
