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We’ll if it isn’t apparent already. I’m a Free Stater. While I’m a huge advocate in favor of weed being legalized, I don’t smoke it. Some people in the FSP smoke some do not. It’s a misconception that everyone in the FSP smokes cannabis. While we are all individuals with individual philosophies it’s fair to say that probably everyone in the FSP believes people should be able to ingest what they choose into their own bodies. I trust individuals to make this choice for themselves rather than some foreign entity (the state) telling people what they can and cannot consume… not only from an ethical standpoint, but even looking at it from an ends standpoint… the amount of non-violent people’s lives effected because of these laws, the costs to fight the war on drugs, and the increased crime due to the black market resulting from it being illegal etc.
I'm not a Free Stater hater. I believe most of them are just libertarians no more extreme than one of my favorites John Stossel. It appears as if anarchists have latched on to your group though. I don't fault anyone for believing drug laws need to be changed and trying to change them. I do fault anyone that will demonize the police for enforcing laws they might not agree with. There is a process for changing the law. Unless and until it is changed don't fault the police for enforcing the law.
If some random schmo out there had ill intention towards one of the many public officials anywhere, getting their address would not be a problem at all. It’s irrational to think that an address posted publicly would result in harm being done to the public official or family who lived there. Someone willing to go to such lengths to hurt someone else would take the time to find a particular address themselves. With that being said, enough of the dramatics, the only people being hurt and at risk of being hurt are the people (community) by the public officials. If public officials/politicians want to control other people’s lives and overstep their authority they should at the very least get bombarded with questions from people in the community regarding their actions. It could be worse, if they were normal folk like you and I, they would actually have to be held accountable for their actions, rather than having to answer some pestering questions.
OK, let's just say you are correct. So why post his address? Who overstepped any authority in this particular case? Are you implying that the police don't have a right to ask someone to stop, or force them to stop if they don't? Unless I'm mistaken, that is fully within their authority. They don't do this to ordinary people without any cause whatsoever.
@CarawayDJ,
I see your opinion being fueled more by hate than logic, especially when you finish off your response by saying Derrick needs a shot of testosterone. What does that have to do with anything? Is it an insinuation of being weak? How is being so passionate about a cause that you would be willing move to a new location and dedicate your life in the hopes that people in future generations could have a higher quality of life, as being weak. That’s actually really bold. Not too many people would do that. Most people are perfectly fine with going along to get along, when people like Derrick aren’t. He is willing to take a path of greater potential resistance, because he believes it’s not only ethical, but he doesn’t want to keep encouraging the noose of the state from tightening anymore, as a result of the weak people who choose the immediate yet temporary path of least resistance.
@CarawayDJ,
I see your opinion being fueled more by hate than logic, especially when you finish off your response by saying Derrick needs a shot of testosterone. What does that have to do with anything? Is it an insinuation of being weak? How is being so passionate about a cause that you would be willing move to a new location and dedicate your life in the hopes that people in future generations could have a higher quality of life, as being weak. That’s actually really bold. Not too many people would do that. Most people are perfectly fine with going along to get along, when people like Derrick aren’t. He is willing to take a path of greater potential resistance, because he believes it’s not only ethical, but he doesn’t want to keep encouraging the noose of the state from tightening anymore, as a result of the weak people who choose the immediate yet temporary path of least resistance.
Logically, he was in the wrong. He was asked to stop and didn't. He does come across as a sissy to me. What happened to him is being portrayed as police brutality. That is a joke. That is why I made the remarks I did. It's a complete joke to make what happened out to be a case of brutality. It's fully worthy of being labeled a sissy. On the video there is the part where they forcibly stop him. He is accusing the cops of assaulting him. I just wanted to yell "sissy" at my computer. What kind of knucklehead refuses to stop for the police and then accuses them of assault when they make you stop? He's lucky he was on a bike poking along. Some people like him are in fast moving vehicles having their tires flattened and rammed.
I do not fault him for being passionate about a cause. A lot of people are passionate about various causes. Some people just work for their cause with a little more civility and intelligence. John Stossel is a perfect example of this. He is 200% libertarian. He supports his cause by making very articulate, persuasive arguments. People like him certainly influence public opinion. Ron Paul is another libertarian who influences people by making good arguments. You will not win over public opinion with tactics that most people find repulsive. Most people support law enforcement. You will not win over public opinion demonizing law enforcement.
And that is exactly what you need to do, win over public opinion. No laws will be changed without public support. A small group of people cannot change the laws all on its own. The small group has to become a big group. That's probably the difference between people who fight for a cause and win, and those that go nowhere. You have to be both passionate AND smart.
Few people will see police brutality on that video. To say it is causes your group to lose credibility.
Few people hate law enforcement. To demonize them turns people away from you.
Few people will see this as police overstepping their authority. Even if the officer did not know he was already served, most people know he only had to stop and say that and there would be no issue. To claim this is an example of police abuse causes the group to lose credibility.
I can say with 100% certainty that if this is how the Free Staters plan on advancing their cause, you will go nowhere. You will not change anything. 10 years from now you will still be moaning and groaning without a single cause being realized.
Last edited by CarawayDJ; 04-12-2012 at 03:54 PM..
I see nothing wrong with his address being posted publicly. I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, because I don’t think it will accomplish what it’s intended too. I’m guessing, it’s a long shot attempt for some accountability in a system that gives the police immunity against the vary public who’s forced to pay for their services in the first place. It’s a hope that others from the community who disagree with Moore’s actions will let him know in person (with words). In the hopes that having to answer to the public for his actions will potentially lead to him making different choices with his authority in the future.
Some may believe Moore used appropriate measures to detain Derrick. I on the other hand think it was excessive (not extremely excessive, but still a form of street justice, nonetheless). In perspective, they know Derrick believes in non violence and poses no physical harm and Derrick, myself and others in the FSP converse with these people fairly regularly. Aside from what the perception may be, because of videos showing debates and verbal conflicts with such authorities, the vast majority of the time we communicate with these people cordially on a first name basis. Although I don’t like the fact that police uphold bad orders, shake down the community and lock people up for victimless crimes. At the end of the day I would want no harm done to them, just accountability for their actions just like the rest of the community. They shouldn’t have any special privileges.
At what point in the video do you see a man being beat with a billy club. I didn't see that. Tell me the time it occurs in the video and I'll look at it again.
When you don't stop for police they will stop you. They don't just say "oh, he refuses to stop, let's just go home." How fast was wittle Derrick travelling when they forcibly stopped him? 2 mph? 5 mph? You'd think the police did that to a little girl riding her tricycle by the way you guys describe this. Maybe he needs a shot of testosterone.
I decline to address your post. You cannot even raise your son properly, so what would it accomplish for me to reason with you?
If anyone else is curious, at 0:58 in the video, the goon is visibly brandishing his billy club.
I see nothing wrong with his address being posted publicly. I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, because I don’t think it will accomplish what it’s intended too. I’m guessing, it’s a long shot attempt for some accountability in a system that gives the police immunity against the vary public who’s forced to pay for their services in the first place. It’s a hope that others from the community who disagree with Moore’s actions will let him know in person (with words). In the hopes that having to answer to the public for his actions will potentially lead to him making different choices with his authority in the future.
Some may believe Moore used appropriate measures to detain Derrick. I on the other hand think it was excessive (not extremely excessive, but still a form of street justice, nonetheless). In perspective, they know Derrick believes in non violence and poses no physical harm and Derrick, myself and others in the FSP converse with these people fairly regularly. Aside from what the perception may be, because of videos showing debates and verbal conflicts with such authorities, the vast majority of the time we communicate with these people cordially on a first name basis. Although I don’t like the fact that police uphold bad orders, shake down the community and lock people up for victimless crimes. At the end of the day I would want no harm done to them, just accountability for their actions just like the rest of the community. They shouldn’t have any special privileges.
I concur that it seemed to be a tad excessive. Not brutality by any means, but probably more than justified. BUT, none of that would have happened had Derrick just stopped when told and explained that he was already served.
You talk about police accountability. What about Derrick's accountability? He is being treated by your group as if he was just an ordinary citizen minding his own business when the police charged him. Is there no accountability at all for the fact his actions provoked this? He refused to stop. He then accuses the officer of assault when he is forced to stop. Are you guys just oblivious to this, or do you only hold others accountable? How can someone break the law in the name of a cause and it's ok, but it's wrong for someone else to actually enforce the law.
Your group could use new leadership....if you actually want to change anything.
I decline to address your post. You cannot even raise your son properly, so what would it accomplish for me to reason with you?
If anyone else is curious, at 0:58 in the video, the goon is visibly brandishing his billy club.
You are being dishonest. Hardly a surprise. There isn't so much as a single frame in the video showing a club striking wittle Derrick.
You said "sticking a billy club in someone's bike wheel while in motion, and beating him with said club." The video shows him being stopped, you can't see much of anything because of movement, and then it shows him being pinned down on the lawn seconds later. He makes no sounds to indicate he is being beaten by a club in those few seconds where the camera is not on him. There isn't a shred of video to support your claim he was beaten. Do you want to revise your statement and say he was only brandishing a club? I can't even find that.
If you ask me, your group was baiting the police. You were intentionally provoking this incident to support your paranoid belief of living in a police state. How many people had cameras on the ready that day?
Your group will go nowhere using these tactics. I hope you do go somewhere though.....like Kazakhstan.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms
As most of you know my husband is a former Officer in Keene and we recently discovered the free staters...
It is priority that this information be kept secret due to criminals coming after family members of officers as retaliation for arrests etc. ...
Last I checked, anyone can use the phone book. Get over yourself.
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Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms
as far as we know we think they're following them to their homes but don't quote me on that. They're also posting google maps with directions and encouraging people to show up at these officers houses and essentially harass them.
If that were the case, the proper remedy would be not to answer the door. Knocking on someone's door and having a word on their doorstep, last I checked, it not harassment until the point one is asked to leave.
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Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
there is a leak and it needs fixing.
this should result in legal action.
See the above quoted text.
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Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms
I agree I'm not sure what the officers are taking against the free staters but I really hope they are doing something this is astonishing to me that they are even getting away with this.
They are already making good use of their billy clubs. I bet that thought gave you wood.
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Originally Posted by BF66389
There is some weird view that if someone's salary is paid by taxes- their information should be public. While I think having certain WORK related information public is reasonable; disclosing personal information such as home address and home phone is ridiculous.
Likewise doing crap like this "because you can" does nothing but undermine the credibility of the group doing it...
Given that is nigh impossible to hold the cops to account, as formal complaints are met with retaliation, and in more serious circumstances, they are known to close ranks. The threat of being shamed in such a way may well be the best recourse the citizenry have.
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Originally Posted by Aptor hours
I just think those free staters are big jerks.
I just think that you're a big jerk
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Originally Posted by SummerFall
Why should PERSONAL information about me be disclosed just because I work for the city where i live?? Because THAT is what is being published..PERSONAL. That's the whole point. It IS the personal info being published.
Also, do any of you people understand that people who get paid by "taxes" also pay taxes themselves?? Not saying you said this specifically, but I get tired of people thinking they freaking OWN me because I work for the city. Because you DONT! Every darn person I know who works for the city pays the same da-mn taxes anybody else does! Do you understand that?? People-who-get-paid-with-taxes-pay-taxes-themselves-just-like-everyone-else!!!!!!! Yeah..we get to help pay our own salary. Nice, eh? So I dont want to hear that song and dance about taxes.
If it is listed in the phone book, it's not very private, now is it?
Furthermore, the fact that someone takes $1 in tax and pays 30c back in one way or another does not negate the initial receipt of tax money.
You will hear this 'song and dance' as long as it pleases me to play it.
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Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
Presumably these free-stater creeps are aware of NH law which allows the use of deadly force if they are on your property? I see no reason not to blow them away - a few less jerks in the state would be a good thing.
You would propose mass deportation? We know the meaning of 'Live Free or Die', so I invite you to try blowing them away.
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Originally Posted by waterboy7375
What makes you think they are free staters
Shire Society is associated with the Free State Project.
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Originally Posted by Mrtwigg
It's in your town's annual report. Go to your city or town hall and pick one up. They are free.
Salary is one thing as the citizens have a right to know where their money is going.
Personal information on .gov employees is another.
It is one in the same. If they act in such a heinous way, such as employing force in great excess of any reasonable quantum, then let them be shamed. That is our recourse.
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Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
I have no doubt there's two sides to this story. We're only getting the cops' side. Furthermore, given it is the police complaining, I have no doubt that if the free staters actually did something illegal, they'd have been arrested or charged, and we'd be reading about it in a news article. This sounds like whining over probably a non-event. Quite frankly, I don't trust anything cops say anymore, I've seen too much of their corruption, lying and abuse of people. Like them or not, the free staters have revealed some towns' police abuse of, for example, open carriers. The cops have themselves to blame for that negative publicity and the lawsuits. They merely had to uphold the law as they're supposed to.
This information is publicly available. If you work for the government, you should simply assume your home address will never be fully private. It is what it is.
Agreed
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Originally Posted by GregW
I was speaking with a senior Republican member of the NH House a couple of days ago and he was very distressed with the "Free State" legislators. I believe him when he states they do not want any government at all and are doing anything they can to thwart both the Republicans and Democrats in our legislature. IMHO – If any citizen, state or city employee is injured at home because of publishing their home address then the leaders as well as those free staters directly responsible for the damage be prosecuted by the law.
If you want a decent Representative Government I as k you to identify ALL the free staters and their supporters and VOTE THEM OUT OF OUR LEGISLATURE IN NOVEMBER!
All four of them? Oh wow...as if they ever had a stranglehold to begin with.
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Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
These free state people are crackpots. About in the same league as OWS except they've been smoking BAD weed.
FrugalYankee, are you mad someone sold you a joint full of oregano? Everyone knows the Free Staters have the best
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Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms
I posted the link to THEIR site they post it in... They're not shy about who they are and what they do
...and rightfully so!
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Originally Posted by GregW
Publishing information that leads directly to a crime is a crime the seriousness of which depends on the resultant crime committed. How is holding someone responsible for the consequences of what they do or say a violation of the 1st Amendment? If I incite a crowd to riot am I not responsible for the damages done by the riot? I believe I would be.
Again, anyone can use the phone book. Get over yourself.
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Originally Posted by FrugalYankee
You might be able to report abuse to the web host.
I did whois and reverse IP searches and found that freekeene,com has the same IP address as freetalklive,com. Not suprisingly they hide behind a proxy registrar.
Supposedly they prohibit unlawful activities so you can give it a try.
Good luck with that, why don't you give them a call so you can hear yourself being laughed off the line?
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Originally Posted by seamusnh
This is just plain wrong. The free-staters are not making any friends in the general population with these tactics.
Which one of 'these tactics' was Derrick using when the cop knocked him off his bicycle?
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Originally Posted by FTL_Ian
Of course, "Sweetbottoms" did not give you the full story. Officer Fintan Moore's home address and phone number was only posted after he attacked a peaceful man on a bicycle in an insane attempt to serve him papers. See the video of the event here: Keene PD Employee Fintan Moore Assaults Derrick J Freeman - Free Keene
If Fintan Moore didn't want his information revealed publicly, he should have not attacked a peaceful person. Also, placing his information in the white pages was not a good way to protect his privacy.
People that blog at FreeKeene.com are both "free staters" and NH natives and longtime NH inhabitants. We are all people who love liberty and want to live peacefully with our neighbors.
When someone breaks that peace as Fintan Moore did, they need to be held accountable.
Hope that helps clear up some of the misinformation posted here!
Well said Ian.
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Originally Posted by steel7
A cop is a public servant. If he or she dont want their names published then they should seek another line of work.
Precisely.
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Originally Posted by FTL_Ian
I would have stopped, because I know police can be dangerous people who will hurt me. Derrick made a mistake for sure, but that level of force is not justified to serve papers. The video clearly shows what happened prior to his arrest - he was already served the papers by another cop!
It's sad to see people identify with their captors and blame the victim. Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well.
You probably would have been someone who voted "guilty" in that case, right CarawayDJ?
Thank goodness you don't live in NH anymore.
Well said, he is not worthy. His place in the world is as mosquito fodder.
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Originally Posted by CarawayDJ
Cops didn't hurt poor wittle Derrick. He was restrained against the grass lawn for God's sake. They had to knock him down. That's what they do to people who will not stop.
If I knocked you off your bicycle, it would not hurt you? How absurd.
You are being dishonest. Hardly a surprise. There isn't so much as a single frame in the video showing a club striking wittle Derrick.
You said "sticking a billy club in someone's bike wheel while in motion, and beating him with said club." The video shows him being stopped, you can't see much of anything because of movement, and then it shows him being pinned down on the lawn seconds later. He makes no sounds to indicate he is being beaten by a club in those few seconds where the camera is not on him. There isn't a shred of video to support your claim he was beaten. Do you want to revise your statement and say he was only brandishing a club? I can't even find that.
If you ask me, your group was baiting the police. You were intentionally provoking this incident to support your paranoid belief of living in a police state. How many people had cameras on the ready that day?
Your group will go nowhere using these tactics. I hope you do go somewhere though.....like Kazakhstan.
I suggest using some marijuana for whatever vision issues you are having. I would also advise getting your hearing checked.
It is clear what happened starting at 00:48 in the video, and I stand by what I have said.
Now, why don't you go raise your son to be less violent than this man, as opposed to his current state?
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