Purchasing Alcohol in the State of New Mexico (Albuquerque: under 21, law)

[Aero]

Originally Posted by karmathecat

No, the issue is that NM and Albuquerque have some pretty serious alcohol related issues...from drunk driving to FAE/FASD affected kids.

You can't go a month or so without hearing about another victim of a brutal car accident where alcohol was involved.

If this is a store or businesses way of trying to somehow solve a very small part of a very large issue, then more power to them.

You're taking this way out of context. Moreover, the protocol of asking every single person for ID when purchasing alcohol is designed solely for the purpose of protecting the store owners from being fined or loss of license. Don't you understand? It's NOT the law for them to do this. You are quoting the law, and you do not see anywhere words along the lines of: "all individuals shall be prohibited from purchasing alcoholic beverages unless producing a valid ID indicating he or she is not a minor."

If you love Albuquerque, as I do, and you think that by asking everyone for an ID you will somehow "solve a very small part of a very large issue," I can't help but disagree with you because the store protocol has indeed been in place for many years, and you don't see the problems of alcohol abuse getting any better. In fact, and again this is my point, you see that adults WELL OVER the age of 21 are having difficulty just buying a simple bottle of wine.

[marmom]

Originally Posted by Aero

In fact, and again this is my point, you see that adults WELL OVER the age of 21 are having difficulty just buying a simple bottle of wine.

I have never had difficulty buying a bottle of wine.

Aero,
I see your point, but you are only going to make alcohol sales difficult for yourself with your attitude. Maybe you should try to find stores/restaurants that don't have a blanket policy and honor them with your business (Chama River and Whole Foods NEVER card me).

Looking at this from a store owner's perspective, I completely understand requiring every customer to show an ID for alcohol purchase. The store owner cannot oversee each sale, but carries liability if a cashier sells to a minor. This is the only way to cover themselves. I would do the same were I in their shoes. It simplifies everything, and at the very worst is a minor inconvenience for customers.

Also, giving people (e.g. cashiers) a hard time about something over which they have no control (store policy), and that they probably couldn't care less about, is generally not going to yield positive results. Therefore, it's a waste of your time/energy and theirs.

[mortimer]

Dana Pabst probably had a valid ID when he bought his last beer on Nov 21, 2007.

You have to act like you are doing something.

ABQjournal.com | Multimedia: One Year Anniversary of the Dana Pabst DWI Accident

He didn't blow a 0.08, just in case anyone is still paying attention.
There were cops wasting their time writing people up for that on that night.

[seain dublin]

It is called CYA. What is so hard to figure out???? It doesn't just happen in New Mexico.

In FL they run your license through a machine if you buy beer at Target or a supermarket, and I'm way over 21.

[tator89]

Why does it bother ppl to get id when buying alcohol? It's just store policy. Ay Walmart its cow!roy stated if u r 40 year old or younger the u r going to get I'd for buying beer and buying cigarettes. It shouldn't be a big of deal. If I'd is expired then we can't use it company policy. But then again common sense should come into account

[Aero]

marmom said:

"I see your point, but you are only going to make alcohol sales difficult for yourself with your attitude."

--If you truly see my point I can't understand why you think I have an "attitude" (LOL). And difficulty? I'm just going to get a new ID. That's not too difficult, but the community in Albuquerque is being mistreated for the sake of business owners using a protocol that is more strict than the current state statute to protect their own vested interests.

marmom also said:

"The store owner cannot oversee each sale, but carries liability if a cashier sells to a minor. This [to ID every single person regardless of age] is the only way to cover themselves. I would do the same were I in their shoes. It simplifies everything, and at the very worst is a minor inconvenience for customers."

--It's simplification, that's for sure, but you are mistaken about it being a "minor inconvenience" if you do not have an ID with you. Depending on where you go, you will likely be denied the sale for no reason that pertains to law, and for a 40 or 50-year-old person in the community to have to deal with this is ludicrous. Moreover, why the heck is it the responsibility of any member in the community to see to it that a store doesn't sell to minors? That's what we have a Department of Public Safety for! Plus, not asking a 50-year-old person for ID does not do one thing to prevent the store from being at risk for loosing a license. Why? Because the person is obviously of legal age and looks it! To ask the person for ID is only helping the employee keep his or her job if there's a protocol to ask every single person for ID. BY your logic, the 50-year-old person is supposed to be sympathizing with the cashier, but that's a perfect example of how the ACTUAL ENFORCED LAW has become TRANSFORMED, which I've stated already too many times to repeat. Really, is it so hard for these store to be hiring reliable people who have a little common sense that they had to create such a robotic protocol for employees to follow?

I agree that it's a complete waste of time to be "giving people (e.g. cashiers) a hard time," which I did NOT advise anyone to do. I suggested to a) ask the cashier who asks for ID to state whether or not he or she suspects you are a minor, and b) if the cashier says, "No, but it's state law we ask everyone for ID" (which someone already lied to me about) then you know, a) the cashier is lying because there is no such law, and b) asking for the ID was unnecessary because the cashier states that he or she already does not believe you are a minor--which is the whole point of showing an ID!

tator89 said:

"...common sense should come into account."

Yes! That's what city officials have already told me. But you can see that even here there are plenty of New Mexicans who don't care that a 50-year-old person is being required to show a valid ID--as if this is somehow necessary to make sure the owner is not fined or potentially looses a liquor license. The policy is the policy to employees who can't question the policy, but to the members of the community the policy to ask every single person for ID regardless of age is rude, unnecessary in most cases, and is an over-enforcement of the law. Give me an example where someone who is 50 looks as young as a person under the age of 21? I'd go so far as to say the protocol is making cashiers look pretty darn ignorant, and again, it makes the community here look puritanical when it comes to the sale of alcohol because the law states you only have to be 21 or older, but stores are creating a circumstance in which you need to have a valid ID to purchase alcohol regardless of your age. And worse, because the store policies have been in place for many years, there are members of the community who now believe that in New Mexico the law states you have to show a valid ID to purchase alcoholic beverages regardless of your age. They are MISINFORMED and should be reading the law.

I would suggest anyone who has any more question pertaining to my kind of "attitude" (LOL) on this or the law itself to go to the website for the Special Investigations Division of the Department of Public Safety (the designated lead agency for the enforcement of New Mexico’s Liquor Control Act) New Mexico DPS | Special Investigations Division and click the "contact" button at the top of the page to send them an email.

[ralthor]

I once went to a gas station and they wouldn't sell me anything because my license expired the day before. I went down the street and they did sell me what I wanted. I never went to the first gas station again because they unreasonably inconvenienced me. On the plus side if they hadn't inconvenienced me I don't know how long it would have taken for me to realize my license was expired.

Anyways I don't know what you are advocating. If you don't like the store's policy go somewhere else. Do you want to pass a law that says you must sell alcohol to someone if you don't believe they are a minor even if they don't have a valid ID? Or do you just want to abolish needing a valid ID to begin with and leave it up to the honor system? It almost sounds like you are advocating a Pennsylvania style system where it is all handled by the government and you don't have to worry about those pesky business owners making unreasonable policies.

[loborick]

Stores have every right to refuse service to whomever they want to. The laws for selling alcohol to people who shouldn't be purchasing (intoxicated, underage) are pretty hefty for those stores. I have no problem with them covering their asses. My daughter is a bartender and it is scary what the state can do.

Bottom line...just carry a valid ID when you're drinking or purchasing alcohol. I don't understand what the big deal is. These clerks probably don't know the law and were told by their bosses to say that an ID is required.

[Lovehound]

Referring to earlier in the topic where a man and woman went through the checkout line wanting to buy liquor, the man had proper ID proving he was old enough to legally purchase liquor, the woman had no ID, so they were refused... Then the man went back alone and was refused a second time...

I was wondering, what would happen if the man had his 8-10 year old children with him? "Sorry, we can't sell you liquor because your children have no ID?" Or what if it was his 16 year old daughter who had just gotten her drivers license? Still no sale?

I guess that tells you to buy your liquor alone, or at least send everybody with you to wait in your car while you go through the checkout line.

No liquor sales before noon on Sunday? I didn't know that! Oh well, if I move to Santa Fe I expect I can plan ahead. I like to buy a couple cases of wine at a time at Trader Joe's. No problem.

You guys should see some of the more restrictive states, Utah for example. Camping there can be a real PITA. Again, I plan ahead. How would you like state liquor stores? In those states (I think UT is one of them) you gotta buy all your booze from the gummint! Not very good prices. And they have very short hours. If you want liquor bad enough you'll figure out the hours.

[Aero]

ralthor said:

Do you want to pass a law that says you must sell alcohol to someone if you don't believe they are a minor even if they don't have a valid ID? Or do you just want to abolish needing a valid ID to begin with and leave it up to the honor system?

The first question you ask is obvious, and it is based on the current law, which I haven't indicated I have a problem with. If a cashier does not believe that the person wanting to purchase alcohol is a minor, perhaps as in my example with a 45-years-old male, there is not one unlawful or unethical thing about not asking the person for an ID. There is no law that says all persons buying alcohol must show an ID, and that was my point. Yet, you see many businesses are over-enforcing the law with policies that are only designed to protect their own licenses and to avoid fines, potentially because of an employee who can't use common sense. As written, the two statutes quoted above by karmathekat mean that if a person is suspected of being a minor, and the individual cannot produce a valid ID, the person will be refused the sale. These statutes fall under the section "SALE TO MINORS." This law does NOT apply to people as old as 45 who are not suspected by the cashier of being a minor. According to the Department of Public Safety, the cashier who uses common sense to not ask the 45-year-old guy for ID is doing nothing wrong. The only thing is that the cashier may be working where the store policy (again, which has nothing to do with the actual law) requires employees to ask every single person for a valid ID and to refuse the sale if a valid ID is not shown regardless of how old the person is. As I said, I find this rude and an unnecessary inconvenience when denied the sale, and given I have been told by more than one cashier in various ways that it's supposedly "state law" to ask every person for a valid ID, the practice of telling customers this lie is unethical. They should be clearly distinguishing from what is law and what is their store's policy.

Your second question is also covered by the current law, and it's in reference to people who are young enough that they indeed look like minors. I find nothing rude about asking someone who is still in their mid 20s for an ID simply because they look like they might be a minor. However, you can't loose sight that my issue is with asking every single person for ID regardless of age, which means a 45-year-old guy (or older) will be denied a sale the same way someone suspected of being a minor will be denied the sale, and that's just plain wrong.