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I don't know why people are being so hard on artwomyn. She's just giving her honest opinion about yuppies and their effects on the poor people of color. It's ok if you disagree with her, but all of the disparaging remarks and the anti-black rhetoric is really unnecessary.
Oh and I find it very interesting that some choose to use the "White flight" phenomenon of the 50's and 60's as an example of how blacks were the cause of White folks moving to the suburbs. Did it ever occur to y'all that this "phenomenon" was going on during segregation AND Jim Crow...or did y'all doze off during that part of history class? White flight was nothing more a sign of the times. Ever heard of blockbusting??? Banks & Lenders selling homes to black people in White neighborhoods for dirt cheap and then turning around and telling the White residents..."Uh-oh, the negroes are moving into the neighborhood...your property values are gonna tank..y'all need to bounce!" Nooooo these couldn't POSSIBLY be the reasons White people ran to the suburbs riiiight???
I get it... some of y'all just don't like black people and use anything as an outlet to express that.
I don't know why people are being so hard on artwomyn. :
I was hard on her because she said "yuppies deserve to be despised" and called them "repugnant." She also lumped WASPs in with her rant on yuppies. I didn't respond to the WASP thing because it wasn't clear she even knew what that stands for, but I think it's bad form to come on here ranting and raving about ANY group, calling them repugnant and saying they deserve to be despised.
Also I was hard on her because she cried foul when someone insulted her, but there she was tossing insults at other people (including me).
And she also twisted other people's words while at the same time crying about how people were putting words in her mouth. It was tiresome and pathetic.
Perhaps some other people's behavior on this thread was not so great either, but she is the one who revived the thread after 3 years with her inflamatory remarks.
Please STOP with the insults on all sides. If the idea cannot be discussed without attacking another poster, then please do not respond. Comments will no longer be edited in this thread, and one sentence will have a masterpiece of commentary or rebuttal deleted permanently.
Thank you.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
I was hard on her because she said "yuppies deserve to be despised" and called them "repugnant." She also lumped WASPs in with her rant on yuppies. I didn't respond to the WASP thing because it wasn't clear she even knew what that stands for, but I think it's bad form to come on here ranting and raving about ANY group, calling them repugnant and saying they deserve to be despised.
Also I was hard on her because she cried foul when someone insulted her, but there she was tossing insults at other people (including me).
And she also twisted other people's words while at the same time crying about how people were putting words in her mouth. It was tiresome and pathetic.
Perhaps some other people's behavior on this thread was not so great either, but she is the one who revived the thread after 3 years with her inflamatory remarks.
Oh and I find it very interesting that some choose to use the "White flight" phenomenon of the 50's and 60's as an example of how blacks were the cause of White folks moving to the suburbs. Did it ever occur to y'all that this "phenomenon" was going on during segregation AND Jim Crow...or did y'all doze off during that part of history class? White flight was nothing more a sign of the times. Ever heard of blockbusting??? Banks & Lenders selling homes to black people in White neighborhoods for dirt cheap and then turning around and telling the White residents..."Uh-oh, the negroes are moving into the neighborhood...your property values are gonna tank..y'all need to bounce!" Nooooo these couldn't POSSIBLY be the reasons White people ran to the suburbs riiiight???
And this is why it confuses me when people try to compare the white flight of then to the gentrification that happened last decade. Some like to say "Oh it's NYC, neighborhoods change all the time" and that's true in a good number of cases where it naturally happened, but that wasn't the case with the white flight and it's not the case with gentrification now.
Just wanted to thank you for defending my right to speak my mind on Yuppies. Henna was overreacting to my statements, and being petty about whatever I said. Whether she likes it or not, many Yuppies ARE WASPs (and yes, I know what that means). And quite a few Yuppies, are guilty of causing displacement, in the poor neighborhoods that they gentrify. As for insults, she interpreted ANYTHING I said, as being 'insulting' and 'hateful'.
I also don't get her rant, about me 'twisting words'. If you look back at my statements, you'll see that plenty of folks (including Henna) were twisting MY words, to suit their own negative
ends. And I was on this post in the first place, because it's still there, and folks have a right
to their opinions about Yuppies. If Henna thinks that being on this post is wrong, because it
was created a few years ago, then why did she even bother to get on it herself???
I also agree with your comment about many people are using this thread, as an excuse to put down black people. Just goes to show, racism against blacks, is indeed alive and well these day! As for me, I'm gonna stick with my own opinions, and know that I have a right to express them. Thanks again mayorofnyc, for having the courage to be honest.
And quite a few Yuppies, are guilty of causing displacement, in the poor neighborhoods that they gentrify.
Here's the thing about neighborhoods in New York City: every neighborhood in every borough has changed from Day One. There's simply no such thing as a static neighborhood around here!
The problem with the Yuppies (and their equally objectionable descendents, the Hipsters) is that they do what they do out of a sense of entitlement. They are, to put it in one phrase, spoiled rotten. And they go traipsing around without showing any consideration for anyone else. I think that what people really object to is that sense of entitlement.
I am sorry that the thread got out of hand. I am black and can relate to some of artwomyn's statements.
I have a perspective on gentrification that I shared earlier but I'll post again since it probably got lost in the shuffle. I studied Urban Planning, Economics and Sociology since the 1980s and in my opinion, the gentrification NYC was planned a long time ago. NYC was ripe for redevelopment since the 1960s and the opportunity was seized. Certain powerful entities (not the individual yuppies or hipsters) were the catalysts for change NYC. With neighborhood improvement, prices go up, individuals and small businesses are forced out, and those who can afford the new terms of living become the new citizenry.
IMO it's the middle class that stand to lose the most here. A young couple, a new teacher or a social worker, for example, really can't afford what people now term, "family friendly" neighborhoods. This upsets me because my parents were this exact young couple who bought a house in a nice neighborhood when they had only my dad's salary (mom was on maternity leave).
I try my best not to generalize. I don't appreciate it when people claim that blacks aren't doing anything to improve themselves as much as decent yuppies don't like to hear that they're selfish and pretentious. Based on my educational background, employment and income, one year ago I was technically a yuppie but I was never a shallow person.
If we all believe that when it comes to cities, the only thing that's constant is change, we should be able to understand what happened in the past and that the future could look very different from the present
Oh and I find it very interesting that some choose to use the "White flight" phenomenon of the 50's and 60's
FYI "white flight" is not a 50/60's phenomenon. It happened through the 70's, 80's still happening today.
Are there some white people who leave in droves because a black family moves on their street? Perhaps. Doesn't it make a little more sense that white flight occurs when a neighborhood is starting to go down the tubes? Crime is a really good way to drive families out. And let me tell you, most families don't care what color of person is committing the crime. Crime is crime. Do you have any sympathy for nice families driven out of their neighborhoods because they no longer felt safe?
As for what people "value", I hate to tell you but unless you are some Mother Teresa or missionary, we are all materialistic and what we value could easily be argued to be shallow. It's just the yuppies can afford bigger and more expensive versions of what the average person has. Don't you value your house and car? I do. Wouldn't you buy a bigger house and car if you had the money? I really get annoyed by the anti-yuppie sentiment "They're so shallow and I'm sooooo deep" Please.
FYI "white flight" is not a 50/60's phenomenon. It happened through the 70's, 80's still happening today.
Are there some white people who leave in droves because a black family moves on their street? Perhaps. Doesn't it make a little more sense that white flight occurs when a neighborhood is starting to go down the tubes? Crime is a really good way to drive families out.
I agree and see white flight in NYC having had at least two waves:
1) White flight in the 60s-70s was the result of realtors steering middle class blacks to certain neighborhoods while simultaneously frightening the whites to move out. These neighborhoods were also the only ones for which blacks could get a mortgage aka "redlining." From these practices, NYC lost a huge percentage of its white, middle class stronghold. The blacks who replaced them were also middle class (i.e, they had enough income to buy houses and good enough credit to get mortgages). These were not the so-called "ghetto" blacks. There were no yuppies at this point in time and the neighborhoods affected (NEBronx, SEQueens, EFlatbush, etc.) have never gentrified.
2) The second wave began in 80s and shifted neighborhoods away from being working class/lower middle class white to yuppies and now, hipsters. The specific neighborhoods weren't necessarily "going down the tubes." However, there were overall quality of life issues in NYC that they wanted to escape. Anyway, those who owned homes stood to profit significantly and sold, or they moved away but continue rent out their homes. Those who did not own were forced out by rent increases, probably caused by the first wave of yuppies. Where did these white families go? My guess is Staten Island, NJ, Poconos, and Florida. Not surprisingly, the affected neighborhoods are exactly where yuppies/hipsters live today. Chelsea, Lower East Side/Alphabet City, Hell's Kitchen, SoHo, Astoria, LIC, Woodside, Sunnyside, Williamsburg, Carroll Gardens, Fort Greene, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, Park Slope.
2a) Gentrification in Harlem can be explained by its location -- on the island of Manhattan and it was ripe for development because of the large number of abandoned buildings following the 80s.
3) The third wave (going on now) involves the migration of immigrant groups (i.e., Asians, Russians, Hispanics, Indians, Africans, etc.) within the outer boroughs. This wave is more complicated but doesn't really involve yuppies or hipsters. It's more like wave one but hitting neighborhoods like Ozone Park, Maspeth, Ridgewood, Glendale, Bensonhurst, Sheepshead Bay, etc. and certain parts of the Bronx (sorry, I'm not too familiar with the Bx). Most of these neighborhoods are not "close in" and therefore have little interest to yuppies or hipsters ... until they're priced out of the neighborhoods in phase two!!!
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